quote:

Originally posted by FlyersFan:
hhfan, Philadelphia and the surrounding area ISa hockey town. However, the generation that grew up prior to the Bernie Parent and Bob Clarke era think high school hockey equals fighting. I am not kidding.

I think high school hockey fans have to demand more media attention. I am going to stop my subscription to the Inquirer tomorrow because of the lack of coverage. I think a step in the right direction is to contact The Ed Snider Youth Hockey Foundation http://www.esyhf.com/

The purpose of Snider starting the program was to give inner city kids the chance to play hockey and to help grow the Flyers' fan base. Well, when Snider speaks, government officials tend to listen. Why not ask for more coverage on CN8? Why can't CN8 broadcast several games a year?

The other problem is the egos of many league officials. . .they want to be a hero or in control of everything. They have to realize hockey is for the kids and egos should be checked at the door. I think a symposium between the Flyers and area leagues can help get everyone on the same page. There are pockets of great ideas, but you may need someone like Snider to facilitate this. Keith Primeau is another resource who is trying to help hockey grow.

I have watched high school and amateur hockey grow a great deal in the last 30 years. I think this area could be like Boston, but it needs some help.

FlyersFan ---
I think you are absolutely right about greater Phila. becoming another hockey Boston. But I must beat my wounded horse: There needs to be peace between the AAA and Junior programs and the area high school leagues first. No split seasons, no prohibitions against HS players playing AAA or Junior simultaneously. The kids in Pa. are not more talented than players anywhere else. What they DO have is an opportunity to play more hockey and, in particular, more competitive developmental hockey in AAA and Junior than their counterparts in many other states, in my opinion. Unless there is that "peace" and something like the current status quo is maintained, eastern Pa. high school hockey will quickly become ordinary.
That having been said, there IS such a wealth of opportunity and resources available, that a coordinated PR effort (which need not be costly) can really push our players and programs into greater focus nationwide. I agree with you 100%!!!

Read alkl of the posts. Good points all around. PIAA doesn;t sound liek the answer at this point.

I've read all this talk about the good, bad or whatever abouth the PIAA and what they bring to the table for hockey.

What it seems to me that is going over everyone's heads here is that the PIAA is the the "TABLE" and the question should be: What are we (the high school hockey community) bringing to it!! They ARE the governing body for high school sports in this state. Like it or not!! If you want to be considered legit and a bonafide sport in this state we need to conform to their requirements.

WE must bend and adapt to make ourselves more appealing, or we continue to be considered the "red headed stepchild" we currently are.

SOME kids and parents may have tough decisions (club or high school, unless we wake-up and go Split Season), but they are not the majority Like anything new there will be a learning curve on how to make everyone happy, but we know that's an oxymoron. Not everyone will be happy, but at least we'd be legit and command greater respect and some additional support from our schools.

In time the realization will come that it is what's best for the growth of the game and eventually the parents and players will realize it's also what's best for them (probably not, but a guy can dream). Will the top notch guys stay? Probably not. But are they now? NO! Will they eventually? Maybe.

So why not go for it? Easy answers to that one:

MONEY, EGO and FEAR (of change)!!!!!!!

That is why we will remain stagnant and left behind.

Bad Johnny, well said and well summarized. Adults are supposed to have common sense and know when to put a stop to things. For example, the long season the players in the area endure is too much. These kids (yes they are kids mentally, but adults physically) are playing too much. That is why the PIAA limits the length of a season.

Falling under the PIAA will add a third party opinion that will remain for the most part neutral. Their main concern is for the safety of the player and the player's education. Parents, league officials and rink owners have too much say and they are afraid of losing that power/money.

Bad Johnny and FlyersFan ---
I don't think this is ever going to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. In my view, not only is the PIAA NOT "The Table", recognition by them is completely superfluous. In fact, I see area high school hockey gaining little or nothing by involvement with them and giving away quite a lot in return. However, having enumerated these points ad nauseum here and never being refuted on a point-by-point basis, I'm going to stop trying to gain a consensus on the issue and move on to the next one. I'm pissed off about the Trophies!

hhfan--

I have read your points ad nauseam and there is no need to refute them on a point-by-point basis because there is only one that matters:

Hockey becomes a high school sport or it does not.

There is no gray area here.
If you want to pick and choose things, that is called CLUB hockey. That is the major issue that is being missed here. High School hockey is not CLUB hockey and that is our major problem, because in several locations it is run like CLUB hockey.

If PA High School hockey had a uniform set of rules that everyone followed (had to follow) we wouldn't even be discussing this. Then again, if we had that uniformity we would have to already be in the PIAA because that would be the only way uniformity would happen!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bad Johnny:
hhfan--

I have read your points ad nauseam and there is no need to refute them on a point-by-point basis because there is only one that matters:

Hockey becomes a high school sport or it does not.

There is no gray area here.
If you want to pick and choose things, that is called CLUB hockey. That is the major issue that is being missed here. High School hockey is not CLUB hockey and that is our major problem, because in several locations it is run like CLUB hockey.

If PA High School hockey had a uniform set of rules that everyone followed (had to follow) we wouldn't even be discussing this. Then again, if we had that uniformity we would have to already be in the PIAA because that would be the only way uniformity would happen!!

Bad Johnny ---
We are in more agreement than you think. I'm all in favor of a uniform set of rules. 100%! The only place we part company is at the doorstep of the PIAA. I believe that "reasonable men" should be able to reach common ground on rules that address the singular uniqueness of high school hockey rather than submit to generic PIAA rules that don't address those singular uniquenesses.
I'm also not thrilled with the inevitable cost increases that would accompany PIAA affiliation, but that's of far less concern and, as a reasonable man, wouldn't be a stopper for me.

Bad Johnny,

From all that I have read, hhfan's primary goal is to not get PIAA Affiliation because it would/could work against his HS team. By either stumping for support, or by muddying the waters on getting a uniform system of rules, he may have the chance of having the rules that are in place, stay intact. This stems all the way back to the billeting issue (which I will not bother to rehash). Harvey do you care to respond?

hhfan,

just read your post. I may have been remiss in my previous statement. I am sorry for that. Still do not understand your motive behind staying seperate from a system that legitimizes HS sports.

quote:

Originally posted by whatthepuck:
hhfan,

just read your post. I may have been remiss in my previous statement. I am sorry for that. Still do not understand your motive behind staying seperate from a system that legitimizes HS sports.

whatthepuck ---
No problem. Plus, my kid graduates in June.
My primary motives are two.
First, while I have no issue with a governing body for hockey, I would wish it to be one whose rules are directed at hockey, not HS athletics in general, because hockey today has unique characteristics that the rest of HS athletics don't have. So I would favor a coalition of the existing leagues into a "Pa. Interscholastic Hockey Association" or some similarly-named group. That would be every bit as legitimate as the PIAA.
And, yes, my second issue is with billeting, which would effectively be prohibited by improper application of the PIAA transfer and eligibility rules. I believe those rules had an entirely different original intent (ie - to prevent "packing" of a team (like football) by one school to the detriment of it's nearest neighbors) and do not contemplate the necessity for players who want to go on to play D-111 or D-1 or even professional hockey to begin their Junior careers during high school and those who come to the area to do so. The rules should not be interpreted to prevent those who move to the area during high school to start playing Junior B from playing at the high school they attend. That wasn't the intent of the rules.
My other motives are more minor.

I know this is big boy buisness and I haven't really commented yet because of that, but I would like to say that hockey is diffrent from other sports in America (I'm fairly sure there are no junior football teams) and it would be very difficult if not impossible to assimilate hockey to the other sports. Now after reading the posts (especially batman's) on the west's entry at ushsho.com it would seem that we need to be sure of what we are doing before we commit to anything.

quote:

Originally posted by pez35:
I know this is big boy buisness and I haven't really commented yet because of that, but I would like to say that hockey is diffrent from other sports in America (I'm fairly sure there are no junior football teams) and it would be very difficult if not impossible to assimilate hockey to the other sports. Now after reading the posts (especially batman's) on the west's entry at ushsho.com it would seem that we need to be sure of what we are doing before we commit to anything.

Pez ---
You came up with the brilliant "buy another set of trophies" idea which has eluded us "big boy(s)" for over a decade, so you should consider yourself a big boy, too. Plus, I agree with you. Where is batman's post?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hhfan,