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HHfan-

"With respect to AAA or open-enrollment schools, it is my experience that a very significant portion of the student body is often there for the sole purpose of an athletic opportunity, with academic considerations coming in a distant second. Administrators and some parents will stoutly deny this, but I know from personal experience that it is true."

Really? what is a "very significant portion?"

You make it sound like these AAA schools are Oak Hill Academy or Shattuck.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: PA | Registered: 11 April 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy18:
HHfan-

"With respect to AAA or open-enrollment schools, it is my experience that a very significant portion of the student body is often there for the sole purpose of an athletic opportunity, with academic considerations coming in a distant second. Administrators and some parents will stoutly deny this, but I know from personal experience that it is true."

Really? what is a "very significant portion?"

You make it sound like these AAA schools are Oak Hill Academy or Shattuck.


Jimmy --
By a very significant portion, I mean these kinds of numbers.

This is an actual open-enrollment school in Pa. Total enrollment, grades 9-12 is 800, roughly evenly divided between boys and girls. Boys go to play hockey (JV, then V), football (V), and baseball (V). Girls go to play soccer (JV, then V) and softball (V).
Total athletes = hockey 45, football 35, baseball 18, soccer 36, softball 16. All numbers are give or take one or two either way. Total = 150 students out of 800. 1/2 are there with their sport as the primary reason, information provided by one of the athletes.

I know of another open-enrollment school governed by rules "more draconian", to quote Matt, than the PIAA's regarding transferring and recruiting that has the following numbers. Total enrollment, grades 9-12, is 420, roughly evenly divided between girls and boys. Athletes go there to play hockey(JV and V), girls soccer (JV and V), girls softball (V). The numbers are hockey 36, soccer 34, softball 17. Total = 87. Virtually all of the hockey players are there to play hockey, about half the soccer players and half the softball players. Call it 55.

In each example, the percentage is around 10% of the student body. To me, that's very significant.
Again, I have no objection to it. Open-enrollment schools are going to recruit whether they are violating a PIAA rule or not. That being the case, my position is that the rule is not appropriate if it cannot be enforced. So either don't get involved with that rule and any organization that has it OR change the rule adding some enforcement teeth.
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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ok.

1) If I had 90% of my students whose first priority was academics, and not sports, then my job would be a lot easier.

2) From what I understand, there is going to be a blood-bath next year with the catholic league joining PIAA and situations like the ones you describe. Pretty much exactly the rule that you're talking about (i think). Should be interesting to see how these rules really get enforced or don't.

3) Dra·co·ni·an /dreɪˈkoʊniən, drə-/
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Draco or his code of laws.
2. (often lowercase) rigorous; unusually severe or cruel: Draconian forms of punishment.
---
Dra·co 1 (drā'kō)
Athenian politician who codified the laws of Athens (c. 621). Lauded for its impartiality, his code was unpopular for its severity.

at least I learned something today.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: PA | Registered: 11 April 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Thanks Jimmy, you saved me a trip to the Dictionary.
 
Posts: 899 | Location: Philly | Registered: 11 September 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Jimmy and Matt ---
Sorry to mis-attribute that quote! Actually, CarlWood said "quite draconian" earlier in this topic. I was working from an obviously inadequate memory.
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy18:
ok.

1) If I had 90% of my students whose first priority was academics, and not sports, then my job would be a lot easier.

2) From what I understand, there is going to be a blood-bath next year with the catholic league joining PIAA and situations like the ones you describe. Pretty much exactly the rule that you're talking about (i think). Should be interesting to see how these rules really get enforced or don't.

3) Dra·co·ni·an /dreɪˈkoʊniən, drə-/
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Draco or his code of laws.
2. (often lowercase) rigorous; unusually severe or cruel: Draconian forms of punishment.
---
Dra·co 1 (drā'kō)
Athenian politician who codified the laws of Athens (c. 621). Lauded for its impartiality, his code was unpopular for its severity.

at least I learned something today.


Jimmy ---
In re your #1 -- I have been blessed with 2 children of my own. Excellent children. Good-looking. Funny. Intelligent. And totally disinterested in academics. And, while some think I'm not too bright, their mother has advanced degrees. Go figure.

In re your #2 -- You bet!

In re your #3 -- Cool word, huh? Thank Carl. He's a regular Alfred Einstein when it comes to this stuff!
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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There's a topic line running parallel to this one, entitled "School Recognition". Based on the posts thus far, it is apparent that "getting hockey recognised as a varsity sport" may require no help from the PIAA whatsoever! Based on the posts so far, such recognition seems to be becoming almost routine.
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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hhfan,

Look a little closer at those post. Most of those schools give out varsity letters, but only recognize the hockey team as a "club" sport, not a "varsity" sport. A "club" sport in the scholastic arena is the "red-headed stepchild" of scholastic sports. Yes, your part of the school family, but you sure do get some shabby treatment. Carl could give you a better idea of all the perks and benefits (as well as some pitfalls) of the latter. Though the benefits, I believe, outweight he pitfalls.
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: 23 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by whatthepuck:
hhfan,

Look a little closer at those post. Most of those schools give out varsity letters, but only recognize the hockey team as a "club" sport, not a "varsity" sport. A "club" sport in the scholastic arena is the "red-headed stepchild" of scholastic sports. Yes, your part of the school family, but you sure do get some shabby treatment. Carl could give you a better idea of all the perks and benefits (as well as some pitfalls) of the latter. Though the benefits, I believe, outweight he pitfalls.


whatthepuck ---
That was the question ("What are the benefits and do they out-weigh the pitfalls?") that started this topic line several days ago (see p. 1). I think this has been a very informative conversation so far, but, you're right, we have yet to get to a definitive answer to the question. What are the benefits? What are the detriments? Which out-weighs the other? MAYBE I'll go through the entire blog this weekend and pull out the pluses and minuses each contributor has listed and come up with a summary-to-date.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hhfan,
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I had a conversation with a neighbor today about the Flyers. One thing lead to another and we started talking about high school hockey and he mentioned LaSalle and the Flyers Cup and thought players in the area could play in Canada. I asked him how could he make such a bold statement. He said he grew up in the Toronto area and played up there through college.

He said that in the 10 years that he has lived in the Philadelphia area that it is more difficult to get Flyers' tickets than any other sport. And he was surprised at how much of a hockey town Philadelphia is. I mentioned this site and the discussions about improving hockey in the area. I asked what would he recommend. First, more media coverage because hockey is barely mentioned in the news. Second, varsity status by the PIAA.

I thought about the media coverage of the Flyers recently and they are barely mentioned in the newspaper. Here they are fighting for their playoff lives and the Sillies er, I mean, the Phillies are getting more press. Even the Sixers are getting more coverage and they hardly ever sell out a game. Then I was thinking about the Flyers' Cup coverage and that was barely mentioned, yet LaSalle has been such a dominant team. The Philadelphia Inquirer only had the nightly scores until the championship games. I think I am going to start a protest by ending my subscription with the Daily News and the Philadelphia Inquirer and I am going to tell them the reason. Hockey barely gets mentioned.

I honestly think a Public Relations consultant could help get the word out. What about a big high school tournament down at the Class of '23 rink inviting teams from around the U.S. and Canada. Any thoughts?
 
Posts: 156 | Registered: 30 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Penn is tearing the rink down. Great idea but couldn't you come up with a better venue?
 
Posts: 50 | Registered: 25 March 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Penn is not tearing down the rink. The university has said there is no definitive plan for the rink (keeping it or tearing it down).
 
Posts: 156 | Registered: 30 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Posts: 17 | Location: WNY | Registered: 19 September 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyersFan:
I had a conversation with a neighbor today about the Flyers. One thing lead to another and we started talking about high school hockey and he mentioned LaSalle and the Flyers Cup and thought players in the area could play in Canada. I asked him how could he make such a bold statement. He said he grew up in the Toronto area and played up there through college.

He said that in the 10 years that he has lived in the Philadelphia area that it is more difficult to get Flyers' tickets than any other sport. And he was surprised at how much of a hockey town Philadelphia is. I mentioned this site and the discussions about improving hockey in the area. I asked what would he recommend. First, more media coverage because hockey is barely mentioned in the news. Second, varsity status by the PIAA.

I thought about the media coverage of the Flyers recently and they are barely mentioned in the newspaper. Here they are fighting for their playoff lives and the Sillies er, I mean, the Phillies are getting more press. Even the Sixers are getting more coverage and they hardly ever sell out a game. Then I was thinking about the Flyers' Cup coverage and that was barely mentioned, yet LaSalle has been such a dominant team. The Philadelphia Inquirer only had the nightly scores until the championship games. I think I am going to start a protest by ending my subscription with the Daily News and the Philadelphia Inquirer and I am going to tell them the reason. Hockey barely gets mentioned.

I honestly think a Public Relations consultant could help get the word out. What about a big high school tournament down at the Class of '23 rink inviting teams from around the U.S. and Canada. Any thoughts?


FlyersFan --
I've been saying for months here that we have area players in some numbers who can develop into higher-level players, attributing that opinion to the AAA and Junior B hockey available to our high school players. Compared to a lot of other states, some of which would surprise many, we have extremely good high school hockey.
One thought: The annual Christmas tournament at Iceline, which looks like it has been going on for about 15 years, seems successful (I don't know about the $$, but if it wasn't viable they wouldn't continue it for 15 years) and brings in several out-of-state teams. I'll bet the field could be expanded by 30% to the benefit of everyone. I don't know the Iceline brass, but someone on this forum does.
 
Posts: 257 | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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hhfan, Philadelphia and the surrounding area ISa hockey town. However, the generation that grew up prior to the Bernie Parent and Bob Clarke era think high school hockey equals fighting. I am not kidding.

I think high school hockey fans have to demand more media attention. I am going to stop my subscription to the Inquirer tomorrow because of the lack of coverage. I think a step in the right direction is to contact The Ed Snider Youth Hockey Foundation http://www.esyhf.com/

The purpose of Snider starting the program was to give inner city kids the chance to play hockey and to help grow the Flyers' fan base. Well, when Snider speaks, government officials tend to listen. Why not ask for more coverage on CN8? Why can't CN8 broadcast several games a year?

The other problem is the egos of many league officials. . .they want to be a hero or in control of everything. They have to realize hockey is for the kids and egos should be checked at the door. I think a symposium between the Flyers and area leagues can help get everyone on the same page. There are pockets of great ideas, but you may need someone like Snider to facilitate this. Keith Primeau is another resource who is trying to help hockey grow.

I have watched high school and amateur hockey grow a great deal in the last 30 years. I think this area could be like Boston, but it needs some help.
 
Posts: 156 | Registered: 30 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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