I think this subject deserves it's on topic, and shouldnt be buried in the ICSHL league meeting post.

This is an email that I got from a reliable source:

Just so you know what is going on Lower Bucks and Suburban haven't even had the opportunity to meet yet.
Every time we set a date something comes up with other hockey obligations or family situations
As soon as the Chicago Showcase is done we do intend to sit down and try to work together on some things. I do see major changes in High School hockey in Eastern PA within the next few seasons. I think that Suburban and Lower Bucks will be able to work together and come up with a solution that is beneficial to all the schools in our areas. We just haven't been able to get together yet. No one has shot down any proposal yet because no proposal has been made.

Thanks Matt. I trust Kenny Haas and company will do whatever is best.

Matt,

I agree with you that this topic is important enough to warrant discussion. I guess the biggest problem right now is time and how any opportunity to move this issue forward is being affected by the two leagues inability to sit down and speak openly and candidly about all of the issues. Team registration for next season and tryouts for many teams will start taking place in the next few weeks, if they have not already begun. It’s going to be difficult to change the structure of teams primarily at the lower levels after tryouts are completed.

The LBCSHL has 3 levels of play beside the varsity level starting with the middle school (6-8th grade), Freshmen (7-9th grade) and JV (8-12th grade). While the SHSHL has many levels inside their middle school and JV leagues and not all of these levels are easily aligned within each league. This issue alone will take a few meetings to hammer out the details of a workable solution. But it certainly can be done if things get started right away.

Aligning the varsity programs would be very simple by placing Pennsbury and Neshaminy in the AA division and placing HGP, Ryan, Judge and Roman in the AAA division. Who knows if CEC will even have a team next year? I know one sticking point that concerns the folks in the LBCSHL is their steadfast opposition to varsity 2 teams. This could be a real deal breaker. In my opinion it should not be, in no other high school sport is it permitted and the SHSHL would be wise to concede this point in hopes of making the merger work. The AAA level would then consist of 7 teams while the AA level would have 2 divisions to accommodate the 13 teams.

For Pennsbury and Neshaminy this should be a no brainer. Their rivals in all other sports would now become their rivals in ice hockey. As for HGP, Ryan, Judge and Roman this clears their schedule so that if they want to expand their schedules’ to include other Prep schools they would now have room. Or they could continue their rivalries with Neshaminy and Pennsbury as non league games, which might draw better because they would not be playing each other 2-3 times each season as they currently do.

The bottom line is this, this proposal makes so much sense that it’s a crime that it’s not been done already, and time is rapidly slipping away for the 07-08 season.

It's a great idea. The conferences could then be set up to match up with Suburban One:

American: Plymouth-Whitemarsh, Quakertown, Springfield(M),Upper Dublin, Upper Moreland, Wissahickon (maybe Methacton?)

Continental: CB East, CB WEst, CR North, CR South, Hatboro-Horsham, Norristown, Souderton, Tennent

National: Abington, CB South, Neshaminy, North Penn, Pennridge, Pennsbury

The independents could be placed to even out the numbers: McDevitt would be a good fit for the National, Lansdale Catholic for the American

What to do with the LaSalle 2, 3, 4

The Suburban meets the first Wednesday of each month. I'll be interested to see if this is discussed. It has not so far.

If you're a team in the Lower Bucks League why would you want to go to the Suburban League. First off if your AAA you go from a 24 game schedule down to a 12 game schedule. If you are Pennbury or Neshaminy you give up your automatic bid to the Flyer's Cup. The reason I hear is that the public schools want a legitimate chance to win the league championship. To me that seems a little misguided because with all due respect to the Suburban League the historical factor to their league championship is non exsistant compared to the Lower Bucks championship. Secondly (again no disrespect intended) but how did winning the Suburban League work out for the past few champs in terms of the Flyer's Cup? Heck Neshaminy would not have even been in the tournament if they were in the Suburban league. The point of Neshaminy vs Pennsbury would be a better draw becasue they would play less doesn't make sense to me because they would still play each other twice in the Suburban League. Does one extra game hurt fan attendance?

As far as the strong 7 team AAA league you would be creating, that wouldn't quite be the case as I am fairly certain that if a merger were to take place Roman would go back to the Inter County league and also it has been stated several times on this board that no one knows if GA will be able to field a team. So now you are down to 5 teams again.

And on top of all that you still have to deal with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th varsity teams that the Lower Bucks League is opposed to.

Basically your plans work out nice if you are the Suburban League but I fail to see any benefit if you are the Lower Bucks League.

It seems to me that this is not anywhere as simplistic or a "no-brainer" as people are trying to make it sound.

Well, first off, if CEC does not come back you're down to a 6 team league. And last year you played 9 - 10 games against the SHSHL anyway. Maybe you'd rather play each of the other 5 teams 4x a year. That would give you 20 games.

I can understand not wanting to give up the automatic FC bid. It must be nice to not have to worry about qualifying.

quote:

Originally posted by Koolaid Drinker:
If you're a team in the Lower Bucks League why would you want to go to the Suburban League. First off if your AAA you go from a 24 game schedule down to a 12 game schedule. If you are Pennbury or Neshaminy you give up your automatic bid to the Flyer's Cup. The reason I hear is that the public schools want a legitimate chance to win the league championship. To me that seems a little misguided because with all due respect to the Suburban League the historical factor to their league championship is non exsistant compared to the Lower Bucks championship. Secondly (again no disrespect intended) but how did winning the Suburban League work out for the past few champs in terms of the Flyer's Cup? Heck Neshaminy would not have even been in the tournament if they were in the Suburban league. The point of Neshaminy vs Pennsbury would be a better draw becasue they would play less doesn't make sense to me because they would still play each other twice in the Suburban League. Does one extra game hurt fan attendance?

As far as the strong 7 team AAA league you would be creating, that wouldn't quite be the case as I am fairly certain that if a merger were to take place Roman would go back to the Inter County league and also it has been stated several times on this board that no one knows if GA will be able to field a team. So now you are down to 5 teams again.

And on top of all that you still have to deal with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th varsity teams that the Lower Bucks League is opposed to.

Basically your plans work out nice if you are the Suburban League but I fail to see any benefit if you are the Lower Bucks League.

It seems to me that this is not anywhere as simplistic or a "no-brainer" as people are trying to make it sound.

I would gladly give up the automatic FC bid to compete for a league championship!

My feeling is if we are not good enough to be in the FC then we shouldn't be there; and you are probably right in that we (Neshaminy)may not have received a FC bid this season were it not for the the fact that we played in the LBCSHL, but that is besides the point.

This isn't about automatic bids to FC, this is about creating a balanced, very competitive league.

We already play 10 games a year against suburband schools, why not add 10 more and allow us to play HGP, Judge, Ryan and Roman once a season.

As I posted before, only 1 public school team has won the LBCSHL in over 20 years, and it is time to make this change in order to create balanced leagues.

Combining leagues makes sense for both LB and Suburban, especially if they could agree that varsity 2 teams were not allowed.

It seems like both Pennsbury and Neshaminy are conceeding that an automatic bid to the Flyers Cup is not what drives their programs.

Competeing against the teams that they "should" compete against (other large public schools)and rolling the dice with the results would be more satisfactory to them.

Cudo's to both for their willingness to earn their spot without accepting the easy route to the Flyers Cup.

If leagues want to retain their history, have a Suburban Cup and Lower Buck Cup for the original members during the season.

It would be great to see PIHL add eastern side of the state. Lehigh Valley, Inter-County, Surburban, Lower Buck, and Central Penn all merge.

A merger with the PIHL is not even an issue here. The attempt here is to get Eastern Pa all on the same page.

quote:

What to do with the LaSalle 2, 3, 4

Put them in a JV League where they should be.

Sure, and a year ago when LaSalle 4 won the suburban JVAA and LaSalle 3 won Varsity A, the league and the school agreed to move those teams up a level this past year. Placing those teams at JV does nothing for nobody.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

quote:

I guess the biggest problem right now is time and how any opportunity to move this issue forward is being affected by the two leagues inability to sit down and speak openly and candidly about all of the issues. Team registration for next season and tryouts for many teams will start taking place in the next few weeks

I've always thought that too many people are over-extended in this game, wearing too many hats, controlling too many decisions...

quote:

Originally posted by ralphy:
Sure, and a year ago when LaSalle 4 won the suburban JVAA and LaSalle 3 won Varsity A, the league and the school agreed to move those teams up a level this past year. Placing those teams at JV does nothing for nobody.

lasalle should not have 4 varsity teams, they should have 1. in reality, whats the point, your not flyers cup eligible, and your not on the schools top team. so taking those two factors out of the equation, its not varsity hockey, no matter who you play and what league your in. maybe lasalle should place 2 teams in the dvhl at midget 18 and midget 16 levels. it would probably be better competition anyway, and theres more to play for if you qualify for districts.

Guys,
I happen to know both coaching staffs at Neshaminy and Pennsbury and Matt is correct these guys are not interested in an automatic bid to the Flyers Cup. They are interested in their kids competing in a real scholastic schedule similar to what the rest of the student athletes who attend their schools do. No offense intended but the Flyers Cup has always been seen by these programs as “icing on the cake”. Their real goal has always been to win a league championship in Bucks County. Both head coaches realize that they can’t compete with schools with open enrolment. Sure there is that year every so often where they can challenge but the stars have to align perfectly for that to happen.