I don't think most people are complaining about Junior players in high school hockey. I think it's more the billeting of junior players to non-open enrollment schools.

quote:

Originally posted by trimback:
The new youth movement rules will only help Jr's. I think a team can only take 2 players from 1 team and total of 4 new players. The older kids especially at Midget Major with very few teams will be forced down to AA or Jr's. These rules don't apply at Jr's.

Them getting Jr A only makes sense, VFMM wanted it a few years ago also. If a kid is playing Jr B and eventually wants to move to Jr A. Why go play Jr B at jr Flyers then try to make a move back to little flyers for Jr A. Just go Little Flyers Jr B to get your foot in the door. It helps Jr Flyers compete against Little Flyers with options.

My understanding of the rule as expelain to me by Bud D. is that the 2 player rule does not apply to any organization that does not have a team at a certain level or will not be fielding a team at a certain level. For example since the Little Flyers do not have a MM team, the Junior Flyers MM is not limited to only 2 Little Flyers players joining the Junior Flyers MM. Also if Comcast or the Minutemen do not field a MM team next year again the Junior Flyers MM can take as many of those players without regard to the 2 player limit. Any increase in the amount of players playing juniors in this area is going to happen regardless of the movement rules. The proliferation of juniors in this area appears to be for 1 reason. $$$.

wow, so many great points by hgp:

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Im sure if ice hockey was considered a varsity sport by the public schools, and announcements were made and the games were promoted, and they had bus trips to rinks, the game would have great draws.

We tend to get a decent crowd at Grundy for Ryan, especially for rivalries, but I think the school could do alot more to quote HGP "promote it"

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On game days, the whole school is made aware of hockey games, and where they will be played. Many non hockey players talk about the team and games at school, because the school does a great job of promoting the team.

Imagine if this was happening at every school. One can dream, right?

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I know how great the LBSCHL games draw, but the best draws are around Thanksgiving and PLayoffs. So, with the league set to fol.d, a Thanksgiving tournament or end of season tournament, would have a huge draw

Didn't think of this, but so true. Thanksgiving would be huge.

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What about the kid that is punished by not making the HS team because a roster spot is needed for the Billeted player?

Great point by Matt.

As far as billeting, it's pretty obvious as far as solution (PIAA rules prevail), it's incorporating it that only a few seem to want to partake in.

The question that kept popping in my head about the goalie, was that once his Jr. team folded in the beginning, why would he stay in PA. Wouldn't he want to go back and find a AAA team or such back home with, im sure, better competition than here, especially HS. I know I would've went home. I don't need an answer, just thinking out loud.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TopShelf,

Hawk,

I don't know if it's all about making $$$, sure it opens the door for two more years of eligible hockey for the kids in the area (kids 18-20 lol). Sure the price tag is slightly higher from a Midget AAA to a Jr A/B team. But the teams expenses also increase with mandatory things under Jr rules.

I know for me, my son playing Jr B was much cheaper than the years in the past playing AAA.
Jr's he had three practices a week and 2 professional dryland sessions a week. Most of his AAA teams had 2 practices and dryland cost you extra ontop of the teams fee. So did the extra ice they picked up. Then comes all the tournaments fees, gas, tolls, hotels, food, and gate fees to watch my son play. Jr B I just dropped him at the rink or he got a ride, then I picked him up or he got a ride end of weekend. Few dollars spending for food only. Which is cheaper than me, him and his younger brother eating on the road with him.

The traveling to games was optional so it was much cheaper and was less stress and resources for me. Sure the cost of travel could come out the same for a parent to travel along with the Jr Team, but its optional not required.

Topshelf where did the goalie come from?

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Originally posted by hgp fan:

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Originally posted by cicvi17:
The biggest crowd I've ever seen at Ice Line was the triple header state championship in 2003. Same for Aston in 2007. I have to think one of the biggest reasons for this is how well Holy Ghost draws and travels - Bud can confirm this, but in game two of the LBCSHL league finals back in 2003, I'm pretty sure we put over 1000 people into Grundy against Neshaminy. Plus, anyone who watched the AAA Flyers Cup championship game last year saw how packed the Ghost section was. High school hockey can certainly draw, especially if the team is good and especially if it's a rivalry game. That's the one downside of the proposed folding of the Lower Bucks league - the gate is almost always huge for every league game because the rivalries are so strong, and it would be a shame to lose that. Pennsbury won't draw as well in the Suburban league, and Ghost's crowds are bigger for Ryan, Pennsbury, and Judge than for any other teams, Malvern and LaSalle included.

I think one of the reason Ghost draws so well, is not only the fact that they have been successful for most of this decade, but also because the school has a huge role in the team.

On game days, the whole school is made aware of hockey games, and where they will be played. Many non hockey players talk about the team and games at school, because the school does a great job of promoting the team.

Im sure if ice hockey was considered a varsity sport by the public schools, and announcements were made and the games were promoted, and they had bus trips to rinks, the game would have great draws.

Cicvi, I know how great the LBSCHL games draw, but the best draws are around Thanksgiving and PLayoffs. So, with the league set to fol.d, a Thanksgiving tournament or end of season tournament, would have a huge draw

Your right completely but a lot of that stuff has to be done by kids on the team. When I was in high school we always dressed in shirt and tie game days and we would make videos for the mourning announcement with highlights of our games and they would always say where and what time the game was. The kids I coach now do the same type of things and there games are very well atteneded.

But yes I do agree it would help even more if they where official but some times you have to get the ball rolling yourself. Since the time i played they school officially reconizes the team now and with a little more push hopefully they will start to fund them, and it is public if i didnt mention that.

quote:

Originally posted by trimback:
Topshelf where did the goalie come from?

Trim, this thread actually started in the "A Seedings" thread, and then Matt made its own. Here's a post from that thread that should fill you in abit:

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
Hawk --- Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Yes, the player signed to play with the Jr. Bucks, registered at PV, intending to live with PV77 and family, as arranged by the Bucks.

2. Several days before the start of school (2-3), registration having already taken place, the Jr. Bucks folded and immediately, within 24 hours, a position on the Minutemen was offered and accepted.

3. The kid came to Pa. to play Junior, also wanting to play high school, as is allowed in Pa., but not in Ct.

4. And, yes, the Perk Valley team is improved with the play of two billeted players, as allowed under the rules. And it is a big deal because, as you said, they are doing well this season. How many other billeted players are playing on their high school teams in greater Philadelphia is unknown to me. These two are not the only ones, that's for sure. They're just the most visible.

5. Would Perk. Valley be as good without them? No. But they would still have Fiorillo, DeLuca, Christie, Shaw, Daschille, Ziegler, and all the rest of the team, many of whom also play Junior or AAA, just as their counterparts all around Phila. do.

If he was good enough he should have stayed up in that area closer to home to get more exposure.

From what I hear another kid who stayed around here and played 4 years of high school hockey committed to a D-1 school.

Adam Shemansky of Notre Dame and the Mercer Chiefs committed to Maine.

That's accurate - he visited Maine over the weekend and was told if he plays a year of juniors and does well, they'll commit to him. It's a similar situation to Yale's offer to Brian O'Neill from GA.

Before Notre Dame and the Mercer Chiefs, Adam played for a now-disbanded team called the Tri-County Phantoms. As a squirt, he was teammates with both O'Neill as well as Luke Popko from Boston University. Three players from one local squirt team all soon to be playing DI hockey. I find that impressive.

That is especially impressive if you consider the caliber of schools where talking. Its not Wayne State or Huntsville its 3 perenally good schools. Maine is in a rebuilding time but hopefully they will get to the top and both the other schools are top 12.

To anawer trimback's last question (above):
In CT., his entire season would likely have consisted of 16-17 games and 3 practices a week from the end of November through February (allowing for a back-up to play 3-4 games). Ct. prohibits HS players from playing AAA or Junior during the season. His exposure, short of shifting to prep school at $40,000 per year, would have been so-so.
In contrast, here in Pa., he will have, between HS and Junior, played 40-50 games and practiced 4-5 times per week from September through March against far better competition. That's between double and triple the practice time, nearly triple the games, over double the season length...all against far better competition. Given the Junior and AAA opportunities available in Pa., and other factors, I suppose, the opportunity to develop a kid's game, he thinks, is far better in Pa. and the HS teams, as a result, are considerably better, as well.

I think many people have taken the reaction to billeting quiet wrong (mostly those in the PV program) MOST of the people that have a problem with billeting have a problem with it all across the board not just at PV, just using PV is the easy example this year. Another thing is this is not a new debate at all, people have complained about this issue for along time but like I said in a previous post, with this forum being only a few years old, the problem is more public and it makes it easier for people to express their thoughts.

I am in agreement with many people that billeting should be outlawed by all schools that play in the AA and A divisions. Again like most people I don’t think that PV has done anything wrong this season, along with any other team with billeted players. I am positive that this is an issue that will be discussed in the off season by the ICSHL, and hopefully other leagues will adopt a similar policy so all flyers cup teams can be on the same page. I am not sure if billeting is an issue in other leagues since it has never been mentioned on here.

HHfan- you say the high school competition is better in this area how about the midget AAA and junior competition? I think there are a few MET league teams near CT, and also I was always under the impression that the top private schools in CT were on par with other top private non prep schools in New England. Also although I don’t see eye to eye on the billeting issue, you seem to be a pretty level headed class act parent. I had the opportunity to meet Sutherland in the ICSHL all-star game he was also a stand up guy, as were the rest of the PV players, wish I could say the same for their coaches.

First of all he wasn’t the starter for the Minutemen; he only played about 10 games. So that puts him at what 28 games with high school. So if he would have stayed and played juniors in the ridiculously better scouted CT area he would have had less exposure??? Within an 80 miles range of Central conn three is literally 16 D I NCAA schools and 24 D III schools. THERE ARE 2 DIII SCHOOLS AND NO DI SCHOOLS within that same radius of Philly. Lets not make excuses, the kid probably didn’t get on the junior team he wanted up there and came down here cause they where the only ones that gave him a shot.

Jigga -- I don't know as much about Midget AAA as I do about Junior. I do know that there are FAR more Junior opportunities in greater Phila. than there are in all of Connecticut. There are a couple of Met League teams in Ct., but Sutherland would have had to forsake HS hockey in order to play, while at the same time doing his senior year in HS. He attended one of the private non-prep (ie parochial) schools you refer to and, yes, they play good hockey. But his team at PV, along with the rest of the top tier of the ICSHL, are just better. It's probably, but I don't know for sure, due in part to the fact that Ct. HS players aren't allowed to play AAA or JR. during the season. So they aren't as well conditioned, aren't generally as fast, etc. According to Sutherland, Junior practices are WORK compared to HS practices at his Ct. HS. And they won the CT. D-11 State title last year, so they could play. I guess when you take 14 and 15 year olds out of the mix and put 19 and 20 year olds into the mix, Pa. players who can play AAA and Junior bring some extra skill and toughness to their high school teams.