West Chester East did an amazing job today...Sent the team off in the biggest way possible! They staged a fire drill - all students were outside with the band - the bus drove through the whole loop around East and Fugett - kids had pom poms - signs - smiles - clapping - teachers and administrators also - the bus drove through a banner at the end...made by students. Players were throwing red and yellow wrist bands out the windows to the student body and teachers while they were shocked to see that for 15 minutes - it was all about them today. Thank you to WC East Administration and folks on the East Hockey Board for working together to provide an experience that will likely never be forgotten by anyone that was there - now thats school support!

any given year - this can be your team and your school - let the AD offices know!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ice ice baby,

quote:

Originally posted by coachh:
Thanks to all who responded since I posted yesterday . The Boyertown AD has decided to include us , and reward the players with varsity letters . Thanks again for your help .

coachh ---
Congratulations!!! I think that is terrific. This should also give some of us reason to re-think the need for affiliation with the PIAA. If we can get "recognition as a varsity sport" through efforts like yours, we should also be able to get teams and leagues together to agree on a few rules clarifications, allowing us to avoid the inevitable cost increases and bureaucratic BS which will come with PIAA affiliation.

quote:

Originally posted by ice ice baby:
West Chester East did an amazing job today...Sent the team off in the biggest way possible! They staged a fire drill - all students were outside with the band - the bus drove through the whole loop around East and Fugett - kids had pom poms - signs - smiles - clapping - teachers and administrators also - the bus drove through a banner at the end...made by students. Players were throwing red and yellow wrist bands out the windows to the student body and teachers while they were shocked to see that for 15 minutes - it was all about them today. Thank you to WC East Administration and folks on the East Hockey Board for working together to provide an experience that will likely never be forgotten by anyone that was there - now thats school support!

any given year - this can be your team and your school - let the AD offices know!

ice ice baby ---
Attaboys go out from me to the East administration, faculty, student body, and fans! As a steadfast Perk. Valley supporter, I can tell you that, while we hated losing to Rustin in the Cup Semi-final, we've always said that East deserved to win. Best of luck in Johnstown. Win the Championship and figure out some way to bring back the actual trophy!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hhfan,

North Penn has a separate booster club. We get varsity letters and our jerseys. sometimes special awards (the usual MVP's and things like that).

North Penn is funded and fully supported by the High School

What do you mean by funded? It is one of the more expensive clubs in the immediate area at ~$1400 a year.

Top 10 Ways to tell you are “officially” recognized.

10. Your team picture is in the HS yearbook, and you get varsity letters to give out.
9. You get to use the school weight room, and the Phys Ed Department’s Trainer works with your players and also attends your games.
8. You get invited to the school’s “all sports” awards banquet.
7. You are introduced to the full meaning of “winter sports season” by the school Athletic Director: this includes avoiding all conflicts with soccer and football, but also means the lacrosse and baseball coaches can’t hassle your players until March.
6. You are instructed by the Athletic Director that your team will operate under the same rules and procedures as all the other school sports teams:
• You get a weekly report of academic and disciplinary eligibility that determines who can play or practice for the next week;
• You are told by the Athletic Director that players cannot be absent from school the day of a game or the day following a game, or else be suspended for the next game;
• Your players have to pass the PIAA medical examination for the sport of ice hockey;
• Players, coaches, parents and students in attendance at games will be held accountable for their behavior under the school's discipline policies;
• You get to explain to the AD why there are “JV playoffs” for ice hockey.
5. Your team gets bus transportation, but only between the school and the rink.
4. Unhappy parents know to send their letters to the school AD, the Principal, or their buddy on the School Board to up the ante until they get their way.
3. Your coaches are hired and paid by the school district. All your coaches have to pass the Penna State Police criminal screening process like other school district employees.
2. You get money from the school district towards new uniforms, but there will be no players’ names on the back, and the district’s usual vendors will be asked to bid on the uniforms.
1. The school district contributes a portion of your team’s budget every year, money that can be used in an unrestricted fashion for ice rentals, supplies, clinics, whatever.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CarlWood,

quote:

Originally posted by CarlWood:
Top 10 Ways to tell you are “officially” recognized.

10. Your team picture is in the HS yearbook, and you get varsity letters to give out.
9. You get to use the school weight room, and the Phys Ed Department’s Trainer works with your players and also attends your games.
8. You get invited to the school’s “all sports” awards banquet.
7. You are introduced to the full meaning of “winter sports season” by the school Athletic Director: this includes avoiding all conflicts with soccer and football, but also means the lacrosse and baseball coaches can’t hassle your players until March.
6. You are instructed by the Athletic Director that your team will operate under the same rules and procedures as all the other school sports teams:
• You get a weekly report of academic and disciplinary eligibility that determines who can play or practice for the next week;
• You are told by the Athletic Director that players cannot be absent from school the day of a game or the day following a game, or else be suspended for the next game;
• Your players have to pass the PIAA medical examination for the sport of ice hockey;
• Players, coaches, parents and students in attendance at games will be held accountable for their behavior under the school's discipline policies;
• You get to explain to the AD why there are “JV playoffs” for ice hockey.
5. Your team gets bus transportation, but only between the school and the rink.
4. Unhappy parents know to send their letters to the school AD, the Principal, or their buddy on the School Board to up the ante until they get their way.
3. Your coaches are hired and paid by the school district. All your coaches have to pass the Penna State Police criminal screening process like other school district employees.
2. You get money from the school district towards new uniforms, but there will be no players’ names on the back, and the district’s usual vendors will be asked to bid on the uniforms.
1. The school district contributes a portion of your team’s budget every year, money that can be used in an unrestricted fashion for ice rentals, supplies, clinics, whatever.

Carl ---
Would you say that there is a similar list of BENEFITS to "Official" recognition? Many would say that a number of these listed indicators are negatives. "Unofficial" recognition, as currently exists in one form or another, is widespread and generally doesn't include the negatives. This question is not meant to be argumentative. Rather, it is meant to form the basis for a comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
Carl ---
Would you say that there is a similar list of BENEFITS to "Official" recognition? Many would say that a number of these listed indicators are negatives. "Unofficial" recognition, as currently exists in one form or another, is widespread and generally doesn't include the negatives. This question is not meant to be argumentative. Rather, it is meant to form the basis for a comparison.

Whether my points are "positive" or "negative" is a matter of perception. They are the reality that all the other HS sports live with--what it means to be a HS sport. If we're going to be a true HS sport, why do we need to pick and choose what parts of it are "good" or "bad".

Other than the possible limitations on the season, what's not to like?

I like the "winter sports season" because it reduces competition for the school's athletes "in season" and increases the practice/game ratio in season. You don't like it because it works to reduce the number of games played, and potentially promotes the "split season" concept. You see it as a negative, I see it as a positive.

There's recognition, funding, emphasis on academics and good behavior, and it takes the coach hiring decisions off the ("crazy" hockey) parents' hands.

Beyond that, if ice hockey can't be run like all the other HS sports--27 or 28 currently under PIAA auspices--why bother? Let's just go back to the club hockey world. And we all know what a well-organized scene that is.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CarlWood,

Carl,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. With the present setup now, the hockey player is nowhere near held accountable as a student athelete as the other school sports. Yes, there are schools that recognize their hockey team to varying degrees, but if people saw what it was like to be legitimately recognized by their school they'd understand the difference. Additionally, many of the "concerned parents" out there that worry about the amount of hockey their kid will get to participate in, need to step back and come to grip on reality. Most but a small (<1%) of all kids in this area will not go on to D1 or professional hockey. If all you can see is the hockey angle as the developmental benefit to participating in this sport, well then you are missing the whole point of team sports. High school sports are not primarily set up to get kids "prepped" for the next level. The whole point to school sports is to more fully educate students in a different atmosphere. The point of scholastic atheletics is to teach the values of hard work, team work, discipline, responsiblity / accountability, and perhaps more importantly how to overcome disappointment and adversity. This is why we need to at some point, come under the governing body of the PIAA.

quote:

Originally posted by CarlWood:

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
Carl ---
Would you say that there is a similar list of BENEFITS to "Official" recognition? Many would say that a number of these listed indicators are negatives. "Unofficial" recognition, as currently exists in one form or another, is widespread and generally doesn't include the negatives. This question is not meant to be argumentative. Rather, it is meant to form the basis for a comparison.

Whether my points are "positive" or "negative" is a matter of perception. They are the reality that all the other HS sports live with--what it means to be a HS sport. If we're going to be a true HS sport, why do we need to pick and choose what parts of it are "good" or "bad".

Other than the possible limitations on the season, what's not to like?

I like the "winter sports season" because it reduces competition for the school's athletes "in season" and increases the practice/game ratio in season. You don't like it because it works to reduce the number of games played, and potentially promotes the "split season" concept. You see it as a negative, I see it as a positive.

There's recognition, funding, emphasis on academics and good behavior, and it takes the coach hiring decisions off the ("crazy" hockey) parents' hands.

Beyond that, if ice hockey can't be run like all the other HS sports--27 or 28 currently under PIAA auspices--why bother? Let's just go back to the club hockey world. And we all know what a well-organized scene that is.

Carl ---
I agree completely that positive and negative are a matter of perception. My over-riding belief is that self-government and local control are far superior to centralized government and centralized control.
With that principle in mind, we should first recognize that "official recognition" will inevitably lead to dramatically increased cost. You listed a number of the factors that will contribute to that, but by no means all of them. Those cost increases will all be borne locally, by the taxpayers as well as by the hockey players, with the hockey players continuing to pay just as much as they do now. But, every single time a program is adopted by or falls under the control of a larger governing entity in this country, the costs go through the roof and the effectiveness of the program decreases swiftly. Examples include education, housing and urban development, immigration, road and highway construction...anything where control becomes more centralized.
However, cost issues being set aside, hockey is unlike the other (sports) "27-28 currently under PIAA auspices". Forget D-1 college play. In every other one of those "27-28" sports, a kid can reasonably expect to play his sport at a D-3 college. All he needs to do is be a good high school player. Tennis, golf, cross country, softball, soccer, basketball, baseball, you name it. At the typical private, D-3 college, co-ed, with 1500 students and 9 varsity sports, 450 students MUST play a varsity sport. (The math is 9 sports for boys, 9 for girls, times 25 players per team.) This is due to Title 9. That's 1/3 of the student body. Hockey is the only sport in which that opportunity does not exist. It exists in all of the "27-28" others. So, hockey is a fundamentally different animal and won't necessarily benefit from being thrown into a herd of "27-28" others.
I make no secret of my belief that a rush towards the PIAA does our local players no good whatsoever. I believe that virtually every real benefit that might be derived can be derived by a locally-created governing body, if it is necessary to "unionize" in some way. Many individual schools in the area have already succeeded in doing that on their own.
So, I can't agree that it's either the PIAA or "why bother?". I believe that we can ALWAYS do better locally to regulate, plan, spend money, and improve results than any remote collective will do.

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
I make no secret of my belief that a rush towards the PIAA does our local players no good whatsoever. I believe that virtually every real benefit that might be derived can be derived by a locally-created governing body, if it is necessary to "unionize" in some way. Many individual schools in the area have already succeeded in doing that on their own.
So, I can't agree that it's either the PIAA or "why bother?". I believe that we can ALWAYS do better locally to regulate, plan, spend money, and improve results than any remote collective will do.

Where in my "Top Ten" list did I mention the PIAA, other than using its medical exam form to be sure the players are healthy enough for hockey? My list is as local as it gets--the relationship between the hockey team and the school. And the school controls that relationship; all the hockey team can do is choose to try to promote it or not. Good behavior will get you school recognition, but "bad" behavior in the public eye may achieve the same result. If you want to use the school's name, you have to play by their rules. I have seen it work out both ways.

This thread is about "recognition", not PIAA membership. WE don't make the decision to join the PIAA. When enough schools have fully-recognized hockey programs, the member schools will initiate the process of making it a PIAA sport. That will be a long, drawn out process. We already have more HS ice hockey teams in PA than there are boys lacrosse teams, but lacrosse achieved that "full recognition" level much faster, which was the impetus for the PIAA to finally take over the sport.

In terms of the superiority of "local" decision-making: consider all the complaining on this message board about the various leagues, the "powers that be", different rules from league to league, the lack of formal local organization... If we get any more "local", the sport may collapse of its own infighting. Frankly, the PIAA sports model would take most decision-making away from the local leagues and move it to the school Athletic Directors--how's that for "local"?

Carl, I think you make some great points and I agree. Interestingly enough, I have heard that the superintendent of Central Bucks recently talked about not letting the 3 high school teams use the "Central Bucks" name. Why? I'm not sure about the specifics, but bottom line was the parents' boards. (Also, the superintendent is not a hockey fan) If that happens hockey will take a step back in my opinion because Central Bucks is the third largest district in the state and that will effect a significant number of players. On the other hand, imagine the trickle-down effect if Central Bucks recognized hockey.

quote:

Originally posted by CarlWood:

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
I make no secret of my belief that a rush towards the PIAA does our local players no good whatsoever. I believe that virtually every real benefit that might be derived can be derived by a locally-created governing body, if it is necessary to "unionize" in some way. Many individual schools in the area have already succeeded in doing that on their own.
So, I can't agree that it's either the PIAA or "why bother?". I believe that we can ALWAYS do better locally to regulate, plan, spend money, and improve results than any remote collective will do.

Where in my "Top Ten" list did I mention the PIAA, other than using its medical exam form to be sure the players are healthy enough for hockey? My list is as local as it gets--the relationship between the hockey team and the school. And the school controls that relationship; all the hockey team can do is choose to try to promote it or not. Good behavior will get you school recognition, but "bad" behavior in the public eye may achieve the same result. If you want to use the school's name, you have to play by their rules. I have seen it work out both ways.

This thread is about "recognition", not PIAA membership. WE don't make the decision to join the PIAA. When enough schools have fully-recognized hockey programs, the member schools will initiate the process of making it a PIAA sport. That will be a long, drawn out process. We already have more HS ice hockey teams in PA than there are boys lacrosse teams, but lacrosse achieved that "full recognition" level much faster, which was the impetus for the PIAA to finally take over the sport.

In terms of the superiority of "local" decision-making: consider all the complaining on this message board about the various leagues, the "powers that be", different rules from league to league, the lack of formal local organization... If we get any more "local", the sport may collapse of its own infighting. Frankly, the PIAA sports model would take most decision-making away from the local leagues and move it to the school Athletic Directors--how's that for "local"?

Carl ---
You brought up the PIAA in the second to the last line of your quote that I was responding to (see my response above).
And, with respect to the benefits of local decision-making, I didn't suggest that we get more local. What I DID suggest is that a "locally-created governing body" should be able to produce virtually every real benefit that might be derived from a PIAA affiliation (see my response above), and that that would be a better choice than either of the two you offered, "PIAA...or why bother" (see my response above). It would certainly be better, more cost effective, and more hockey-oriented than turning ourselves over to a schools/PIAA bureaucracy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hhfan,

quote:

Originally posted by FlyersFan:
Carl, I think you make some great points and I agree. Interestingly enough, I have heard that the superintendent of Central Bucks recently talked about not letting the 3 high school teams use the "Central Bucks" name. Why? I'm not sure about the specifics, but bottom line was the parents' boards. (Also, the superintendent is not a hockey fan) If that happens hockey will take a step back in my opinion because Central Bucks is the third largest district in the state and that will effect a significant number of players. On the other hand, imagine the trickle-down effect if Central Bucks recognized hockey.

FlyersFan ---
I wonder if that had anything to do with the CB South Varsity AA coaching staff resignations described in COACHING CHANGES on this forum?