I understand that subjects sometimes take a turn and get offtrack, but we now have two topics dedicated to Billeted players....continue on this thread and let the other topics get back to what they were.

I will relay this information to show that the billeting system is flawed AND can be manipulated.

Last season (2006-07), the head coach for D'town East HS team just so happened to also be the head coach for the Tri-State Select Jr B team. He had billeted players (at least two that I know of), and they both wound up billeting in the D'town East school district. So the billeting issue is not one of a kid just randomly landing in one lucky school district or not, at least all of the time. Inside connections to these junior programs with HS ties stand to gain a significant edge by using it to their advantage. This to me seems like recruiting plain and simple. And whether or not PVs intentions were pure or not, just the fact that that system can be manipulated is reason enough to at the very least place restrictions on it, much like the open enrollment schools have. Let's face it, not all Catholic schools actively recruit, but some have shown that they do. Unfortunately, becuase these schools can recruit, they rightly or wrongly are faced with having to play at the AAA level, or not be eligible for FC play.

As Matt has moved this topic to a new home---

quote:

Originally posted by pvhockey77:
I appreciate the backing that Perkiomen Valley is receiving from hgp fan and hhfan, and we have done nothing outside of the rulebook. We by no means "recruited" these players. Our goalie came down from CT to try out for the Eastern Penn Bucks, and was initially supposed to live with our head coach. After the Bucks folded, My mom invited him to a tryout with my team, and after he made the team, we invited him to live at our house, which is within the PV border.

Our other player in question was all Domish's doing, we had no idea that Logan was even going to our school until his billet family, who has no affiliation with PV (besides living in the district), came to me and asked if I could drive him to practice from school everyday.

This is just how things fell, we did not go out of our way to "recruit" these two guys, it is just the way things happened. Do not take away our team's accomplishments because of two players. We have lost two games (one being in the Christmas Tournament) since November 9th, and while Rob and Logan played key parts in many of those games, they are not the only reason we win. We have a strong core and good leadership, that is why we win.

Originally posted by hhfan:

quote:

Hawk --- Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Yes, the player signed to play with the Jr. Bucks, registered at PV, intending to live with PV77 and family, as arranged by the Bucks.

2. Several days before the start of school (2-3), registration having already taken place, the Jr. Bucks folded and immediately, within 24 hours, a position on the Minutemen was offered and accepted.

3. The kid came to Pa. to play Junior, also wanting to play high school, as is allowed in Pa., but not in Ct.

Something in the facts does not agree. pvhockey 77 states that the player was invited to live with the family after he made the team. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that it was the MM team. Prior to that date he was to live with the head coach. Presumably that was PV's head coach. hhfan- you should coordinate the facts with pvhockey77 since Sutherland is living with his family. The facts appear that the move was in part for athletics.

Going forward, if hockey is to eventually gain acceptance by the PIAA it must adopt PIAA rules. The PIAA rules state that any transfer is deemed to be for athletic reasons. There are specific exceptions such as a family relocation, change in living circumstance that parents divorce or remarry and the student relocates with the custodial parent. Anyone can go to the PIAA website and read the rule at:
PIAA Constitution and ByLaws

quote:

Originally posted by hhfan:
rahal -- yes, that's my argument except that the hypothetical student is moving into a school district for reasons that have nothing to do with the school's athletics. Therefore, I wouldn't think that the proposed rule requiring a year of ineligability would apply.
In reference to Rob Sutherland, he had signed with the Jr. Bucks, got billeting assigned, registered for school, then the Bucks folded about 2 days before school started. An offer was immediately forthcoming from the VFMM and was accepted.

HH - you're totally off base. Athletic reasons are athletic reasons. The fact that he transferred for Junior doesn't change the fact that this kid or any other billeted kid made the move for athletics. Unless your contention is that Junior hockey isn't athletics.

Ask this question -- if the kid wasn't here to play Junior Hockey, where would he be going to school? My guess is not PV. He's not here because of job changes, family issues etc. Therefore he shouldn't be eligible. Or let PV play at AAA with all the other recruiting teams.

That being said, what's being done is perfectly legal -- this year -- may not be going forward.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sm14,

What about the taxpayers of Collegeville who have to take on the education costs of these two students who are there to play Jr. B?

I agree with SM14. What PV did this season and other teams do and have done over the years is legal under the current rules. That had become the concensus yesterday when Matt consolidated the discussion to this topic line.
We had then moved on to a discussion of how to "deal" with this issue in the future. Should there be a policy regarding Junior players playing high school hockey? If so, what should it be? How does the fact that Colleges look to Junior programs, not to high schools, as the source for players, affect any final rules change, hockey being different from all other high school sports in that regard? In other words, how do you reconcile the current reality of college play with the concept of "what high school hockey should be all about"?
So, as far as I'm concerned, that's where this discussion now rests...on how to regulate high school hockey fairly to ALL parties in the future, bearing in mind that Pennsylvania high school players should have the same opportunity to go on to college athletic programs that other high school athletes have, and that any adjustment to the rules not preclude that.

Actually, the PV school district is violating the PA School Code by not requiring tuition from the billeted player. At least that's how I interpret it. See below from the PA school code:

§ 11.19. Nonresident child living with a district resident.
(a) A nonresident child is entitled to attend the district’s public schools if that child is fully maintained and supported in the home of a district resident as if the child were the resident’s own child and if the resident receives no personal compensation for maintaining the student in the district. (Billet families are paid as far as I know.) Before accepting the child as a student, the board of school directors of the district shall require the resident to file with the secretary of the board of school directors either appropriate legal documentation to show dependency or guardianship or a sworn statement that the child is a resident of the district, the child is supported fully without personal compensation or gain, and that the resident will assume all personal obligations for the child relative to school requirements and intends to so keep and fully support the child continuously and not merely through the school term. The resident’s receipt of public payments, such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), maintenance on public or private health insurance, pre-adoptive support or other payments for or on account of the child, may not be deemed to be personal compensation or gain under this section. The school board may require other reasonable information to be submitted by the resident to substantiate the sworn statement in accordance with guidelines established by the Department, as authorized by section 1302(2) of the Public School Code of 1949 (24 P. S. § 13-1302(2)).

(b) The enrollment requirements outlined in § 11.11 (relating to entitlement of resident children to attend public schools) also apply to a nonresident child living with a district resident.

Snipe ---
I don't think we've heard from the Downingtown East coach on this subject, unless he's operating under a nom de plume and commenting right along. But, not knowing all of the circumstances of their apparent on-going practice of playing billeted players, I'm prepared to assume that what they've done is completely legitimate in accordance with the current rules.

to t.horton ---
It is my understanding that the code sections you have referenced have been fully complied with, paperwork referred to properly submitted, in compliance with the requirements. School districts are fully aware of these requirements, have all of the proper paperwork readily available, and know exactly what they are required to do.

hhfan- The answer is very simple. No one has a problem that a junior player is playing for his high school team as long as the player is not coming from out of the area to play junior hockey. No one has said anything about DeLuca or Ziegler at PV, Murray or Banes at O'Hara, Hayden at Springfield, Stauffer at Methacton ... not being eligible to play high school hockey because they play juniors. The only issue is the junior player coming from out of the area and billeting with a family not his own family.

I know I am beating a dead horse here but if hockey was a PIAA sanctioned sport, which it appears we would like it to be, these billeted player would not be eligible to play. The leagues should adopt this rule going forward. What has happened in the past and this year is over. Good luck to PV and all of the FC teams.

Regarding Billeting players, there is a strong rumor that the Junior Flyers are going to field a Jr. A and keep their Jr. B team. As players come from other states to play on this Jr. A and they are also age approaiate to play high school hockey. I would assume that the the 3 West Chester schools will go after these players to play for their high school teams. And find local WC homes for these players if needed. If this is an issue then the ICSHL needs to set down some rules regarding this issue. This past season a DVHL team had a an out of state college player rostered on their team so when he came home he played in league DVHL games, age approaiate yes play approaiate no. Some rules need to be laid down.

Hawk -- You're certainly right. It would be a simple solution to adopt a rule that effectively bars billeted players in the future. My point, and the point I made to Carl yesterday, is that whether or not it's the RIGHT solution should remain open to debate. Should a student who comes from elsewhere to play Junior and finds himself billeted in, say, the Downingtown East school district be barred from playing for Downingtown? He would not have picked that district "for athletic reasons". I don't know the RIGHT answer...I just don't think the right course is cut and dried.

Snipe -- Then how can the decision of the hundreds of LOCAL players to play both Junior and high school be justified, if a Junior player's decision to also play high school "could only hurt"?

Well, Snipe, I take your point. I don't agree, in that I think it limits their future college opportunities, but I do take your point.

Snipe --- I'm sorry if I appear ill-informed to you, particularly in light of the fact that I have found myself in agreement with you on numerous occasions and said so. We are disagreeing here on a minor point. As it is clear that a stint in Junior is a prerequisite to playing in college, our only disagreement is on when that should begin. But, if you prefer, I'm ill-informed. Fine.