Ive seen Berkle-Zoldy-Wallin, and Tyson-Denczi-Schmidt this year. When did that change?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry - that's my bad - in my confused state of how Adam Schmidt could be left off the Top 25 list I completely forgot about Kyle Zoldy. Those lines are correct.

Guys, you have a list of somebody's top 25 players on what over 100 schools east of Harrisburg??? 22 of the 25 are from the 3 local leagues, with no more than 2 from any school. In that way (the no more than 2 players from a team) the list is reasonably fair and recognizes many. All of the players on (and off the list) mentioned here on this forum are very good players. No one can possibly see all of these teams enough to pick the perfect 25.

Agreed Ralphy, I'll never say that my list is perfect just my oppinion.

Plym-20, what goes on in the AYHL or the Mt St Charles (Or any) tourney have NO bearing on the picks. It's based on the HS hockey schedule that you see on each leagues websites.

In my oppinion, Berkle is better than Schmidt. You can argue that Schmidt belongs in the top 25....but you cant use his AYHL stats as leverage, they never come into play when making HS selections for top 25 or All-Breakaway.

Adam Schmidt is a very good player, who has two very good linemates. If I remember right, even last year Schmidt spent time on LaSalle Gold and did not play the whole year with the top team. (Of course that Gold team was very talented also). I don't think you could put Schmidt on the list without Tyson and Denczi. He is one of the leading scorers, but playing with Tyson and Denczi has a lot to do with that. I tend to agree with Matt (not brown nosing you Matt), the difference is Berkle is a better sniper than Schmidt. Berkle can pick corners with the best of them.

Pascal in the top three?? Maybe, he has always had the tools, but he's also been subject to mental mistakes, an area he's improved alot to get to the level he is now. I still think even on LaSalle, Laessig is a better defenseman, he may not be as fast, but I think he reads the play better and makes better decisions with the puck.

Getting back to "the List", I think it would only be fair (and of course it's only opinions) that if someone feels someone should be on the list, they should say who they should replace on the list and why. Looking at stats alone can not be the only reason.

Goalies for example, you have some very good goalies that are on weak or middle of the pack teams, they are not at the top of the list in stats, but some are better than those at the top of the list who have very strong teams in front of them. (That is not a shot at anyone on the list, just a general statement). Some are known, some are not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Sacks:
Agreed Ralphy, I'll never say that my list is perfect just my oppinion.

Plym-20, what goes on in the AYHL or the Mt St Charles (Or any) tourney have NO bearing on the picks. It's based on the HS hockey schedule that you see on each leagues websites.

In my oppinion, Berkle is better than Schmidt. You can argue that Schmidt belongs in the top 25....but you cant use his AYHL stats as leverage, they never come into play when making HS selections for top 25 or All-Breakaway.

Not to make a big deal about this (or tick off the moderator) but I was just using Schmidt's AYHL and MSC stats for making a case why he was level (or even ahead) of Berkle this year. It's not like either player has 50 points in AYHL and 6 in HS games - they are both strong regardless of what league they are playing in. Their league stats are even as far as I know. Again, don't get me wrong - both solidly belong on the list and I don't want to start a Berkle v.s. Schmidt discussion because they are both great players, like 1 and 1A. My point was only to point out that Schmidt has done everything Berkle has this year and has been equally as good, regardless of who his linemates are. The one advantage I see in Schmidt is that he doesn't take as many penalties as Berkle.

If I had to take someone off the list, and I've only seen him twice this year, but in my mind Seravelli's been a disappointment at HGP. He had a monster post season last year and now as leader of the Firebirds has them hanging around .500. He's still a decent player, but I think his senior season has definitely paled in comparison to his junior year.

On a side note, why wouldn't HS tournaments be factored in to a HS player's performance?

Trim, agreed, most of the players on the list are with very good teams, of course they are part of the reason that the team they play for does have a good record. However, it takes several good players, not just one or two.

Just one example with a goalie, Paul Kenny from Shanahan has average stats in the ICSHL, his high school team has only two wins. If you look at his stats in Tier 1 club, his stats are slightly better than Dan Pyne's. Both play on teams that are close to equal in talent (they've split head to head) in that league, so you can reasonably say they as goalies are close to equal in talent. However, Kenny probably won't make any list for High School because of the team he is on is not as strong. That's not a knock to Pyne, and not to say he doesn't deserve the rating he has, but it is all relative.

Plym_20, I'm not sure Seravalli is the guy I'd take off, he's still leading the AAA league in scoring on a .500 team with a lesser supporting cast than last year. HGPfan jump in here on this one. I'm just trying to be objective here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

Regarding Seravalli;

Remember he didnt skate for about 6 months, and didnt start to skate again until November. He didnt break his wrist or separate his shoulder, he fractured his pelvus, which is directly correlated to skating.

He definitely started off fairly slow. Ive noticed in the last 5-6 weeks hes definitely gotten his stride back, and is probably 2 steps faster now then he was in November. His timing is back too. He has one of the quickest releases in high school hockey, and can pick goalies apart from the slot. HGP this year has been very inconsistent, battling many injuries, and guys have been placed in bigger roles then they were last season, and Nick has consisitently created scoring chances, and has put up alot of points. Nick is putting up 3 points a game in AAA hs hockey. I dont know how you can really argue the leading scorer in the top league in the area, especially when hes playing on a mediocre team this year that lost alot of firepower from last year. I think he definitely belongs there.

quote:

Originally posted by ralphy:
Trim, agreed, most of the players on the list are with very good teams, of course they are part of the reason that the team they play for does have a good record. However, it takes several good players, not just one or two.

Just one example with a goalie, Paul Kenny from Shanahan has average stats in the ICSHL, his high school team has only two wins. If you look at his stats in Tier 1 club, his stats are slightly better than Dan Pyne's. Both play on teams that are close to equal in talent (they've split head to head) in that league, so you can reasonably say they as goalies are close to equal in talent. However, Kenny probably won't make any list for High School because of the team he is on is not as strong. That's not a knock to Pyne, and not to say he doesn't deserve the rating he has, but it is all relative.

Plym_20, I'm not sure Seravalli is the guy I'd take off, he's still leading the AAA league in scoring on a .500 team with a lesser supporting cast than last year. HGPfan jump in here on this one. I'm just trying to be objective here.

Yes, Pyne play's on a very good team but with the LaSalle's tough non league schedule, still unbeaten and to keep his overall GAA below 1.80 and sv% above 91%, you can reasonably say he belongs on the list due to his HS stats and not compare what he's done in Tier 1.

Trim i agree with you 100%.

It seems to be a little biased on the list only going after the teams that are doing better. You have tons of great players that are not on strong school teams and it is a shame that none of them get looked at!

goaldad,

I didn't say Pyne didn't deserve to be on the list (he certainly should be), I didn't say the other young man should be there in his place. My point was there are very good goalies out there who aren't even considered because they play for a weaker team (unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast). I'm not disparaging your son's accomplishments at all (he is a very very good goalie), so please don't be offended.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

Plym-20, you can't tick me off by dis-agreeing with my oppinion. I'm a fairly logical and reasonable person :-)(And for the record, I think Schmidt is a great player).....there are many players that I would have liked to have included by I was limited with a cutoff number. (I didnt make the rules for the list)

The reason I dont factor in the HS tournaments is because every team doesnt get to play in them. If a first line kid from let's say Council Rock has a great X-Mas tourney at Iceline, but C.B. South doesn't play in that (or any) X-Mas tourney, why should that be held against the C.B. South kid? Plus some teams play in tourney's with an impure team. If they bring in 2-3 good players from the outside, it can help make "Johnny" look better in the tournement than he may be with the supporting cast that he normally has.

Also, I dont have access to ALL the tournament games; ie: I don't see them and stat sheets are not readily availible....so basically, other than what I read in these posts, I'm in the dark about how kids perform in the Tourney's.

As far as kids on sub-par teams not getting looked at, that's not true. I Looked at everyone.

Maybe the teams are sub-par because these "great players" that you speak of aren't stepping up and taking over like they are capable of. There ARE players on this list that are on sub-par teams and there players on the list that are on GOOD teams because THEY make them good. Jayson Ritchie does not have a strong supporting cast, yeah there are a few players on Wiss that can play, but their success is directly attached to the fact that he takes over games every night. Unionville is a .500 team and Milana is on the list. C.B. Eest is probably not on your radar, but Matt Hughes is on the list.

Hershey is undefeated in the CPIHL with players that can arguably be on the list, but I went with a defenseman from the CPIHL on the fifth place team and put no one on from the undefeted Hershey team. So to say that I just plucked players off of the best teams is unfair....maybe these players attribute a lot to thier teams success?

ralphy, just to let you know schmidt was only on the big team last year and played on the 2nd line he played varsity A and aaa in his freshman year. to not include zoldy in these discussions is a great oversight. he is a tremendous energy player with good skill who can play in all situations. moreover, he is the heart and soul of the lasalle team no easy feat when you see all the other names that have been mentioned.

I dont believe you looked at "everyone" Its just to much. You still are missing some players.

Well jon93, next year if and when I do this you are welcome to stop by and monitor the hours I put into this. I spent TWO WEEKS going over this, I didnt do it over night.

NO ONE is "missing"! To put someone else on, I would have to take someone off..... 25 was the limit.

You can disagree with the picks....but ANY player YOU can think of, went through my head at one point. I decided to go with these 25 and forego the other 2000....but "missed" is the wrong word. I didn't miss anyone, I choose these 25 over the others.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Matt Sacks,