All I keep hearing about here is Conestoga, Henderson, Strath Haven, Methacton, etc., all of whom have been struggling all season to keep up with that team no one will mention. Dare I say their name? PERKIOMEN VALLEY!!!!!
Not only have they been in 1st place for the last 2 months, but they have scored more goals than any other team in the League and they have probably the hottest goaltender around (the Sutherland kid). They beat Conestoga twice to win the holiday tournament at Ioeline in December. Yet, when talking about best teams, best players, no one mentions them. They have 3 of the top 15 points men in the league!
So, the question is: why all the discussion of the teams chasing PV and no discussion of PV??

Good Point HH, Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt Perk Valley a top contender last season too?

Yes, they were. And this year, they've got depth, speed, they can hit, and they've got scoring and goaltending. Aaron Zeigler is an all-area defenseman, and Fiorillo, Christie, Nicholson, and DeLuca can score virtually at will. They'e beaten Methacton, Conestoga (twice), WC East, Downingtown East, losing only among the top pursuers to Henderson early in the season. In short, PV looks like the cream of the crop as the regular season draws to a close.

Because the people promoting teams and players on here are probably from those teams. Very common on message boards.

I'm going to broach a topic with PV that I think might have been brought up before.

First off, there is no question that PV is a very deep and talented team. However, I have been watching them closely from the beginning of the season and they do not appear to be getting any better. In fact, it seems as though the gap between them and the competition is closing as the season goes on. The reason that they have consistently won over the course of the season has been their goaltender. Plain and simple, he has been stealing some games for them.

Fortunately for PV, they were able to recruit Sutherland to play for them this year. He's a Jr. B player with the Minutemen, who came down here from New England (Conn. or Mass.). He's billeting with a family in PV school district (I hope). Now my question to Matt, Carl and all of the other powers to be is this: How in God's green earth can this NOT be considered in the same vein as open enrollment that the parochial schools are villainized for? Why is PV not FORCED to play as a AAA open enrollment school?

Robert Sutherland is not just the only player at PV doing this either. Logan Nicholson's family lives in Virginia, and he too is on the Minutemen. I dare say that those two players have had a significant impact on how good PV is. If I was Henderson, Rustin, Marple or Strath Haven, I would be screaming bloody murder over this. If PV did not have Robert Sutherland, their next best ELIGIBLE goalie would be NOT their JVA goalie, but their JVB goalie.

OKAY, now with that, let the fireworks begin!

You're probably right, Trimback. And a certain bias is understandable. But even informed, seemingly neutral, observers have been strangely silent on or else unaware of PV's League-leading talent and play this season.

quote:

Now my question to Matt, Carl and all of the other powers to be is this: How in God's green earth can this NOT be considered in the same vein as open enrollment that the parochial schools are villainized for? Why is PV not FORCED to play as a AAA open enrollment school?

On my green earth....I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don't have a say on the rules or the interpertation of the rules with the FC Committee. They decide which team is eligible for which bracket.....all I can do is seed them in the bracket that I am told they will be in.

My response to Lemieux66 would be simple. PV is not by any means the only team in the League with billeted players on the ice. And Nicholson and Sutherland could just as easily have found themselves billeted in a neighboring district, to the potential benefit of that team instead of PV. Kids move in and out of school districts routinely and for a wide range of reasons.
Frankly, my only original point is that this is a very talented team that many are leaving out of the various "bests" discussions, while the teams and players cited as "bests" have been pursuing PV all season>

quote:

Originally posted by lemieux66:
I'm going to broach a topic with PV that I think might have been brought up before.

First off, there is no question that PV is a very deep and talented team. However, I have been watching them closely from the beginning of the season and they do not appear to be getting any better. In fact, it seems as though the gap between them and the competition is closing as the season goes on. The reason that they have consistently won over the course of the season has been their goaltender. Plain and simple, he has been stealing some games for them.

Fortunately for PV, they were able to recruit Sutherland to play for them this year. He's a Jr. B player with the Minutemen, who came down here from New England (Conn. or Mass.). He's billeting with a family in PV school district (I hope). Now my question to Matt, Carl and all of the other powers to be is this: How in God's green earth can this NOT be considered in the same vein as open enrollment that the parochial schools are villainized for? Why is PV not FORCED to play as a AAA open enrollment school?

Robert Sutherland is not just the only player at PV doing this either. Logan Nicholson's family lives in Virginia, and he too is on the Minutemen. I dare say that those two players have had a significant impact on how good PV is. If I was Henderson, Rustin, Marple or Strath Haven, I would be screaming bloody murder over this. If PV did not have Robert Sutherland, their next best ELIGIBLE goalie would be NOT their JVA goalie, but their JVB goalie.

OKAY, now with that, let the fireworks begin!

This stuff has been happening for years. I guess PV is just fortunate enough to have a junior B team with billets close to their district. Its a shame for the teams in their division, but they are students at the school and for that reason elibible to play hockey.

Its happened before with the West Chesters, Radnor, Conestoga, CB East, Council Rock, Carroll, Ohara many others.

It really wouldnt be any different then having an exchange student from Europe or Canada that plays hockey. Any public school can have a good hockey team, you just have to be creative in the way you do it.

quote:

Originally posted by lemieux66:
Fortunately for PV, they were able to recruit Sutherland to play for them this year. He's a Jr. B player with the Minutemen, who came down here from New England (Conn. or Mass.). He's billeting with a family in PV school district (I hope).

My goodness, is the goaltender situation at PV news to anyone? I fought this battle a year and a half ago, both privately in the Executive Committee and publicly at an ICSHL Board meeting. Any "powers that be" accruing to me are strictly based on my willingness and ability to do the drudge work to actually get stuff done. The subject then was another set of billeted players in a JrB/HS/dual-coaching situation. When discussed before the ICSHL Board, that group had its typical reaction:
1/3 of the room didn't know what we were talking about,
1/3 of the room didn't think it affected their program and didn't care,
1/3 were intrigued by the possibilities and wouldn't want to give up the chance to do the same should the opportunity present itself.
To quote Pirates of the Carribbean, "they're not rules, they're more like guidelines...".

If and when eastern PA brings its HS hockey under a single roof, and agrees to uniform enforcement of "the rules", then this issue might gain some traction. The PIAA just stumbled over tightening its transfer rules--in a way that would have precluded 1 year billeted players from playing varsity sports--and appears intent on retaining its current "exception" system that puts a big part of the eligiblity issue back on HS principals. Foreign Exchange students, under PIAA rules, have to come to this country under very specific visa rules that would eliminate eligiblity for those coming to play hockey as a priority. Again, "rules" or "guidelines"?

So much for "hockey lawyering"; grab me at IceLine this Friday, and I may share with you the screed I wrote to our Executive Board on billeted players..

hgpfan,

Billeting players are basically transferring into an area to specifically play hockey (Jr's). Foreign exchange students are coming over based on education first. There is a difference. As far as other Jr players billeting and playing for other schools, I think that they too should be considered open enrollment and play AAA as well. What other players in the area are billeting and playing Jr hockey as well?

I'm pretty sure that the old trick of having a kid attend another high school because the father maintains a business in that school district (and pays taxes there)has been done away with, how is this any different?

Look, I have no problem with kids wanting to come here from out of state to play Junior hockey. But they are not here to specifically attend a certain HS and play hockey there.

You bring up the point of other schools pulling this kind of monkey business. I don't think it is with Jr. hockey players. Also, the designation of A, AA & AAA was generally more determined by talent level than it was by school size, so that is where the issue of open enrollment comes into play. Call it what you will, but this is nothing more than a public school end around to what open enrollment schools get smacked with and are forced to play AAA. I'll bet that the people at Shanahan and Wood would love the chance to play for the Flyers Cup, and they can't because they are playing down supposedly in designation. Yet, their rosters are made up of parochial school kids who have been attending those feeder schools for years, and their attendance is only about the size of a A or AA school.

Again, why not impose the sanction of placing a team at AAA, as an open enrollment school if you use billeted players? Doesn't mean you can't use them, just means that you'd have to play other open enrollment type schools, where the size of the school district does not matter. What's your take on this Koolaid Drinker and Topcat?

I understand how this issue can frustrate competitors. Its not that cut and dry though, and Im just playing devil's advocate.

A kid is not attending Perkiomen Valley because they want to play hockey for Perkiomen Valley, they are there to play hockey for the VFMM. These kids are out of state transfers, it isnt much different then if there parents moved into the district from out of state. These kids didnt transfer from Spring-Ford (for example) because they thought PV's team would be better this year. Bottomline, the kids attend the school, and should have every priviledge other students have, whether its high school hockey or something else. I understand the PIAA's rules on transfers, but I think they are different when it involves students moving from out of the area.

I know in the last few years 2 goalies from Bud's team moved here from out of the area, one played for Radnor and the other for WC East. Malvern had a Swedish import who came over to play Jr A for the Pittsburgh Forge and ended up on Bud's team and at Malvern. When O'hara won the Flyers Cup they had Jamie Lasher transfer in from Conestoga, who originally moved here from Buffalo or Toronto to play for the Jr Flyers. Carrol had a kid from Minnesota that billeted and played for the Minutmen Jr B, the list goes on. This is just off the top of my head.

Having billeted players wouldnt make a school open enrollment, all the players are living in the district and they are not taking another district's players, which is what open enrollment schools do.

hgpfan,

Billeting players are significantly different than someone moving into the area. Most of the examples you are citing are also already open enrollment schools playing AAA. If the rules for designating the class of which you play are tied to the size of the school district, and parochial schools are told they have to play AAA because they can pull from all over, how can you say that one is different than the other? These Jr. players are coming from other STATES, which mean that the schools are OPENING their enrollment to students OUTSIDE their school district boundaries.

quote:

Originally posted by lemieux66:
hgpfan,

Billeting players are significantly different than someone moving into the area. Most of the examples you are citing are also already open enrollment schools playing AAA. If the rules for designating the class of which you play are tied to the size of the school district, and parochial schools are told they have to play AAA because they can pull from all over, how can you say that one is different than the other? These Jr. players are coming from other STATES, which mean that the schools are OPENING their enrollment to students OUTSIDE their school district boundaries.

Because the public schools technically only have kids that live in their district, whether they live there with their parents, live with grandparents because PV has a great music department (for example), or live with a billet to play on the Minutemen, they still are a resident in the school boundaries. You cant attend the school unless you live in the district, so you really cant call that open enrollment, even though we know they are from another state.