Carl, thanks for the clarification, that seems to make more sense now.

Your last point about struggling diocesan schools is interesting, and could possibly affect my daughter who is an eigth grader at one of those parish grade schools in Springfield Twp. 5 of her class of 14 are going to Wood instead of McDevitt (meets the 25% for this year, but has not traditionally). This is only the second year that anyone from this school has enrolled at Wood. Better check into that - Thanks!!!!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt Sacks:
It would be a benefit to the public schools who loose players every year that go to play "varsity" at private schools.

I don't have a problem with the best players going to La Salle or Malvern to play hockey, I really don't, it's better hockey and better education, I'm all for that, but when public schools start loing second and third liners so that V2 rosters can be filled out....it is going to cripple the pool of players that public schools have to choose from.

If it is called what it is rather than glorifing it by calling varsity, maybe ego driven kids and parents would prefer to stay at their public schools and play true varsity hockey rather than going to a private school and playing JV hockey that is just varsity in name.
[QUOTE]

Matt, wow where do I start? My son goes to Malvern for the education. We live in the Phoenixville area - schools were so bad when we moved there he has never set foot in them. Has played Tier II hockey since he was 8. Phoenixville doesn't even have a varsity program. I don't call paying $24k a year for school an "ego trip". If you can beat 2/3s of the other varsities you're a varsity. Hockey is not like the rest of the sports -- until there is an even playing field my son should be able to say he played varsity hockey.

I know this is a day late and a dollar short. I am alright with not playing in the Flyers Cup (my son isn't) but given the state of hockey in Eastern Pa he should be able to tell colleges (club teams) that he played varsity hockey.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Friar00,

Friar00
I am going to give you my version of what a certain crowd on here thinks. They are free to argue otherwise.

Its basically the Happy Days vision of High School sports. Ralph and Potsy make the top team and are "varsity" so they get to date the cool cheerleaders. (Fonzi of course is to cool for sports). Ritchy makes the second team and is therefore JV and has to hang with the chess club.

The argument has nothing to do with sports, competetion or developing players. Maybe if they could think outside the box (and outside the 1950s vision of poodle skirts and varsity jackets) they could come up with some innovation in the high school system. But that would require some creative thinking.

quote:

Friar00
I am going to give you my version of what a certain crowd on here thinks. They are free to argue otherwise.

Its basically the Happy Days vision of High School sports. Ralph and Potsy make the top team and are "varsity" so they get to date the cool cheerleaders. (Fonzi of course is to cool for sports). Ritchy makes the second team is and is therefore JV and has to hang with the chess club.

The argument has nothing to do with sports, competetion or developing players. Maybe if they could think outside the box (and outside the 1950s vision of poodle skirts and varsity jackets) they could come up with some innovation in the high school system. But that would require some creative thinking.

First and Foremost, Ralph and Potsy NEVER dated the "cool" cheerleaders.

So, Fellows, my question is: Richie did not make the "Varsity" but he should still be on the "Varsity"? Also, You forgot to mention that Ralph Malph was on the varsity team, but never got into the game, because he wasn't good enough. Should he opted to play on the Varsity II team instead?

One game, several players got hurt, and the coach put Raplh into the game. Ralph, unaccustomed to playing in the games, pulled his warmups off and revealed that he was wearing his street clothes under them. It was funny, and no ones Dad was there to yell at the coach for never playing him. Then the gang went to Arnolds where Al DelVechio served up some malts. Nonetheless, It was a great episode. They should really put reruns of that show back on the air.

Anyway, if you are still reading, There was a meeting concerning AAA today. Anyone know what came of it? I hope the do the right thing and get rid of V2s. Sorry Friar, you seem like a good guy, but if it isn't Varsity, it is JV. This is the a remedy to the 'current state' of high school hockey in Eastern PA.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy18:

quote:

Friar00
I am going to give you my version of what a certain crowd on here thinks. They are free to argue otherwise.

Its basically the Happy Days vision of High School sports. Ralph and Potsy make the top team and are "varsity" so they get to date the cool cheerleaders. (Fonzi of course is to cool for sports). Ritchy makes the second team is and is therefore JV and has to hang with the chess club.

The argument has nothing to do with sports, competetion or developing players. Maybe if they could think outside the box (and outside the 1950s vision of poodle skirts and varsity jackets) they could come up with some innovation in the high school system. But that would require some creative thinking.

First and Foremost, Ralph and Potsy NEVER dated the "cool" cheerleaders.

So, Fellows, my question is: Richie did not make the "Varsity" but he should still be on the "Varsity"? Also, You forgot to mention that Ralph Malph was on the varsity team, but never got into the game, because he wasn't good enough. Should he opted to play on the Varsity II team instead?

One game, several players got hurt, and the coach put Raplh into the game. Ralph, unaccustomed to playing in the games, pulled his warmups off and revealed that he was wearing his street clothes under them. It was funny, and no ones Dad was there to yell at the coach for never playing him. Then the gang went to Arnolds where Al DelVechio served up some malts. Nonetheless, It was a great episode. They should really put reruns of that show back on the air.

Anyway, if you are still reading, There was a meeting concerning AAA today. Anyone know what came of it? I hope the do the right thing and get rid of V2s. Sorry Friar, you seem like a good guy, but if it isn't Varsity, it is JV. This is the a remedy to the 'current state' of high school hockey in Eastern PA.

Okay Jimmy just for argument sake lets say MP II is JV team and can beat SJP Varsity 7-1 and also beat 2/3 of the Varsity AA teams in the league. What does being a "varsity" player mean if your getting tuned up by "JV" teams? Point is this whole varsity not varsity argument is completely symbolic and has nothing to do with the reality of the level of play of the teams or the talent of the players. That being the case what is the meaning of "varsity"? Ralphy could be varsity at Podunk High and be an ankle bender or Potsy could be a solid player that can't crack the Varsity team at LaSalle. So what? Still appears to be holding on to some romantic notion of being "varsity" (oh ah). Maybe a system where schools could enter teams into levels based on ability (not unlike club hockey) would actually make sense and be more meaningful. (I think Leather Tuscadero could make "varsity" at a lot of schools....no figure skates for her)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fellows,

It's a moot point. There will be no V2's next season.

The AAA division will look like it did last year with each team playing each other twice for an 18 game schedule. Non-League games can be scheduled against whoever they want to fill out their dance card.

The same teams that make up the AAA division will have their second teams (JV teams) play in the AAA JV division.

When each team was asked if they would play the V2's if they were all in the same division.....Father Judge, Ryan, Ghost and Bonner all said "As long as it is called JV"

Funny, those are private schools and they all agree that there should be one varsity per program.

LaSalle said that they didnt care what the division was called that they would play in it as long as everyone else agreed to play in it.

Kudo's guys for getting this done.

Friar00, no disrespect meant on a personal level with my earlier comment. And I did say that not every kid goes just for hockey.

Another funny sidenote to the meeting was when one of the organizations said that they would rather keep the V2 moniker rather than be called JV AAA, because it helps to attract players..........go figure.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Matt Sacks,

Matt, thought you were out of this argument .

Anyway, who dropped out of AAA (I believe this year there was 11 teams)

What happens with the other open enrollment schools like McDevitt, Wood, Lansdale Catholic etc???? I understood the proposal was an AAA minor division for them, will they play in AAA JV????

quote:

Originally posted by ralphy:
Matt, thought you were out of this argument .

Anyway, who dropped out of AAA (I believe this year there was 11 teams)

What happens with the other open enrollment schools like McDevitt, Wood, Lansdale Catholic etc???? I understood the proposal was an AAA minor division for them, will they play in AAA JV????

AAA teams next season; HGP, Lasalle, Ryan, Judge, Roman, OHara, Malvern, GA, Bonner, St Joes. Salesianum is not in AAA. They will play twice.

The JV division will be the same as AAA varsity, except no GA. I was talking with a few other coaches and we all agreed that this would be a very, very good division, with some very good teams. The teams in this division will probably be better then many varsity teams. They will play each other twice, and are free to schedule varsity teams as non league games.

It was proposed to the remaining open enrollment schools to play in their own division. Example; Shanahan, Wood, Carroll, Haverford School, Episcopal, McDevitt, etc. If these teams do accept invitations into the division, there was talk of them being Flyers Cup eligible at the AA and A level. There is much more to be decided on this though. Schools like Wood and Carroll stated that their eventual goal was to be back in the AAA division but were unsure if they could do it next season, or if they needed another year to rebuild and play in the open enrollment 2 division. I think this is a great idea, because all the schools will be playing teams similar to their make-up, and will potentially receive Flyers Cup bids. It is also a great way to rebuild your program, and have other open enrollment schools start a program, knowing that there is a good chance they can compete with these schools.

Overall, I think there were many positives that came out of the meeting, but there is still alot that needs to be talked about as far as rules, and scheduling.

Thanks HGP fan, sounds like a win/win for everyone.

Ralphy, I didnt offer anything to the argument, I just posted some facts that came out of last nights meeting.

Your "side notes" I took as small shots, no big deal, just thought I'd needle you a little.

AAA JV blows. No varsity will play us for fear of losing to a "JV" team. They didn't want to play against us as A varsity why would they play us as a JV? Hockey is not like ANY other sport and should not be compared or organized like the others.

Meanwhile, my son who earned a Varsity letter by beating varsity teams last year may be relegated to playing JV this year.

You Malvern haters will get what you want - many of the kids will play Juniors rather than JV hockey -- so you can play in your new, shiny watered-down league against watered-down opponents. I'm sure none of you will drown now. And some talented local kids won't get to play varsity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Friar00,

quote:

Originally posted by Friar00:
AAA JV blows. No varsity will play us for fear of losing to a "JV" team. They didn't want to play against us as A varsity why would they play us as a JV? Hockey is not like ANY other sport and should not be compared or organized like the others.

Meanwhile, my son who earned a Varsity letter by beating varsity teams last year may be relegated to playing JV this year.

You Malvern haters will get what you want - many of the kids will play Juniors rather than JV hockey -- so you can play in your new, shiny watered-down league against watered-down opponents. I'm sure none of you will drown now. And some talented local kids won't get to play varsity.

If other schools didnt want to play V2s as it is, why does it matter if they dont want to play JV teams either? Schools like Hill and Lawrenceville's JV teams play other schools varsity teams all the time. Nothing is going change. It will still be as easy or hard to schedule a schools top team anyway.

So your already saying your son has no shot at varsity at Malvern next year and he will only make the JV. Again, the kids know that they are the JV team, regardless of what you call it. They arent varsity, they are the second team, no matter who they play or beat. Midget major teams beat AJHL Jr A teams. Doesnt make them Jr A teams. Tier 2 teams beat Tier 1 teams, doesnt make them Tier 1 either.

Malvern haters? What are you talking about? It was voted unanimously at the meeting by every AAA school. Think about what your wrote too. A kid that can only make JV, is going to play juniors. Save your money, because that sounds like a horrible junior team. I must say, I thought you were a 9th or 10th grader, then realized you were a parent. You need to look at the big picture.

Watered down? Seems like the same V2 teams you played before. And if your worried about playing a weaker schedule, play an independent one like many prep school JV's play. The only reason your actually upsey is because your son will never be on the actual varsity team and now he can't get a letter. Your argument is self-serving and does nothing to try and better the whole of high school hockey.

quote:

Originally posted by hgp fan:

If other schools didnt want to play V2s as it is, why does it matter if they dont want to play JV teams either? Schools like Hill and Lawrenceville's JV teams play other schools varsity teams all the time. Nothing is going change. It will still be as easy or hard to schedule a schools top team anyway.

So your already saying your son has no shot at varsity at Malvern next year and he will only make the JV. Again, the kids know that they are the JV team, regardless of what you call it. They arent varsity, they are the second team, no matter who they play or beat. Midget major teams beat AJHL Jr A teams. Doesnt make them Jr A teams. Tier 2 teams beat Tier 1 teams, doesnt make them Tier 1 either.

Malvern haters? What are you talking about? It was voted unanimously at the meeting by every AAA school. Think about what your wrote too. A kid that can only make JV, is going to play juniors. Save your money, because that sounds like a horrible junior team. I must say, I thought you were a 9th or 10th grader, then realized you were a parent. You need to look at the big picture.

"Nothing is going to change" -- then why change it? Sounds like "HGP logic" (to use an oxymoron).

1. My son has a chance to make AAA next year (as I said before) but there will be 6 goalies because the Malvern program was built around 2 Varsities and a JV.

2. Several players on our A Varsity (read JV for you) played Juniors last year.

3. Our team was 16-11-2 last year at the Varsity level. We're a 2nd team, yes, and varsity capable. And until this last vote we were in the proper place for Philadelphia Scholastic hockey.

Don't you lecture me you big blow hard.