The JVAAA will end up only playing the other JVAAA teams which will weaken the competiton overall that the underclassmen see and therefore weaken the Varsity teams when they move up. Should this also have the effect that some desire and drive kids back to the Public Schools it may raise the level of talent on those team some but it will be so spread out it won't be significant. This would also weaken the AAA privates.

So hope you all enjoyed that AAA State title because it may be the last one you see.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fellows,

quote:

Originally posted by Pondhockey11:
Watered down? Seems like the same V2 teams you played before. And if your worried about playing a weaker schedule, play an independent one like many prep school JV's play. The only reason your actually upsey is because your son will never be on the actual varsity team and now he can't get a letter. Your argument is self-serving and does nothing to try and better the whole of high school hockey.

1. Malvern's program was built for 2 varsities -- that's why it will be tough to get a letter -- 6 goalies! Other sports would grand-father arrangements until the affected players graduate.

2. Of course it's self-serving -- everyone's arguement is self-serving -- why argue otherwize. This isn't the debate club -- it's politics, pure and simple.

3. My son played on the 2008 16U A DVHL champions and was on the first Tier II team from Philly to win a Silver Stick Championship in Canada last year -- he'd play varsity for 90% of the teams in this area.

quote:

So hope you all enjoyed that AAA State title because it may be the last one you see.

Why does Pittsburgh have second varsities?

Friars argument seems to support the ego claim.

He says that kids wont play for the team if it's called JVAAA but will play for the same team if it is called varsity two. Same team, different name sounds like ego to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Hockey 18:

quote:

So hope you all enjoyed that AAA State title because it may be the last one you see.

Why does Pittsburgh have second varsities?

Friars argument seems to support the ego claim.

He says that kids wont play for the team if it's called JVAAA but will play for the same team if it is called varsity two. Same team, different name sounds like ego to me.

It isn't. It's about competition. The other V2s make up half of the schedule - the rest were V1s because we were competitive with them. And yes, it's better to play Varsity than JV - but I think all would agree with that.

Friar00,

To start if you read my posts throughout, I like you are pro - V2. But also I understand the issues concerning this for the overall betterment of HS hockey. One can argue whether it will make it better or not, I don't think so, it will make it more homogeneous. Struggling public schools will still struggle for players, as will open-enrollment schools like McDevitt, Lansdale Catholic, St Pius, etc. Eliminating second varsities will not magically make everything good in the world. Some say it's a start, but I doubt that the other "irregularities" that create teams that fill leagues pockets with fees will change anytime soon.

V2's like all of the other irregularities in HS hockey were created by the leagues with a club mentality. Second teams became varsity because leagues got tired of watching the private school second teams beating up on their JV teams. They created them, they are now taking them away. And that's OK, no other sport has multiple varsities. Ok, so now the purists need to continue and eliminate multiple JV's, unpure JV's etc. Like I said, probably won't happen.

In terms of competition level, AAA JV won't be that bad, realistically, with the exception of LaSalle II, the other second varsities did not play the top AA and A teams anyway, they played each other, the other private schools in ICSHL and ESHL and the weaker public school teams. The team that will be affected the most in the short term will be LaSalle, even there, the second team next year won't be as strong as it was this past year. It would make sense that the Open enrollment 2 division (which would appear to be small) would schedule some of the former V2 teams, the schedule for those schools won't be much different than they are now.
But then, you get into the Varsity/JV mentality, as a varsity team, you don't want to lose to a JV team, heck, you should know that when MP chose not to play LaSalle II in the ICSHL playoffs (even though they were still a "varsity" team).

It sucks for kids like yours and mine that are caught in the middle, like you, hockey and the lure of a V2 (or V3) team was not the reason my son enrolled at the private school he is in. If the team didn't exist, he probably wouldn't be playing HS hockey, which I think will be the end result for many, fewer kids playing, less competition.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

I just looked at the Schedule. Half the games were against other VII teams. The same teams that you will play next year. The only thing that changes is the name. Get over it. The other half of the games were against low-end varsity teams, mostly with struggling programs.

I just don't understand the difference or all the commotion. If the league was called AAA V2 and all of the second teams were called V2, you would be completely happy. You are splitting hairs over a word.

Only now, you will get to play all of the second teams from the top programs in the delaware valley. not struggling programs. If anything, this JVaaa will help the development of HS hockey in the area. I just don't understand your gripe. It seems unnecessary.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy18:
I just looked at the Schedule. Half the games were against other VII teams. The same teams that you will play next year. The only thing that changes is the name. Get over it. The other half of the games were against low-end varsity teams, mostly with struggling programs.

I just don't understand the difference or all the commotion. If the league was called AAA V2 and all of the second teams were called V2, you would be completely happy. You are splitting hairs over a word.

Only now, you will get to play all of the second teams from the top programs in the delaware valley. not struggling programs. If anything, this JVaaa will help the development of HS hockey in the area. I just don't understand your gripe. It seems unnecessary.

Take the numerical and letter designations away -- which would you chose to play for - Varsity or Junior Varsity?

Also, having the AAA Jv division mirror the AAA varsity division, will help create some great rivalries. Before if a kid at Judge, for example, played 2-3 years of JV, then moved up to varsity, he would only be familiar with Ryan, HGP and Roman. Now he will be playing against the same teams, and similar players for 4 years, which should ignite some new rivalries and continue the old ones.

Look, I understand the arguments for purity. Schools should have 1 Varsity, 1 Jr Varsity and maybe a freshman team. My problem is that this change is coming exactly in the middle of my son's high school career. Other decisions may (or may not) have been made if the new, pure league existed before he started but it's too late now. We're not in it for ice hockey alone but it's part of the experience. It's just a shame for him to end V2s now. He had something and now it's being taken away.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Friar00,

Friar, This is getting ridiculous. But I will answer your great Question. I would play Varsity if I had the choice. But the player does not have the choice. The parent does not have the choice. The coach has the choice.

When I got cut from the glaciers midget A team in 1997, I complained about it to my Dad, who promptly told me to suck it up, take it like a man, and learn from it. He did not switch me over to Warwick, or start a second Midget A team. I took it like a man and played on the B team (the denominations later being changed to A and AA for all of you youngins out there in messageboard land). When I got put ont he JV team as a freshmanin high school, I did not complain about it, I worked hard and got myself up to varsity by the end of the year. And you can rest assured that If my old man went on a message board and complained about it, I would be embarrassed and angry. The point is, you are putting your kid's situation above all of high school hockey. As a coach in the future jvaaa league, I am putting the interest of the15 kids on my team ahead of all, because I'd like to see them play against better teams like Malvern Prep's second team, whatever it is called, instead of the teams we currently play 3 times every season. I dont understand how you can disagree with this change.

and further, being as you personally attacked me, maybe inadvertantly, with your "hgp logic" comment, why don't you elaborate on what that meant.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy18:
Friar, This is getting ridiculous. But I will answer your great Question. I would play Varsity if I had the choice. But the player does not have the choice. The parent does not have the choice. The coach has the choice.

When I got cut from the glaciers midget A team in 1997, I complained about it to my Dad, who promptly told me to suck it up, take it like a man, and learn from it. He did not switch me over to Warwick, or start a second Midget A team. I took it like a man and played on the B team (the denominations later being changed to A and AA for all of you youngins out there in messageboard land). When I got put ont he JV team as a freshmanin high school, I did not complain about it, I worked hard and got myself up to varsity by the end of the year. And you can rest assured that If my old man went on a message board and complained about it, I would be embarrassed and angry. The point is, you are putting your kid's situation above all of high school hockey. As a coach in the future jvaaa league, I am putting the interest of the15 kids on my team ahead of all, because I'd like to see them play against better teams like Malvern Prep's second team, whatever it is called, instead of the teams we currently play 3 times every season. I dont understand how you can disagree with this change.

and further, being as you personally attacked me, maybe inadvertantly, with your "hgp logic" comment, why don't you elaborate on what that meant.

That's not quite the same arguement as you were cut before you had a chance. You knew going in you had 1 shot -- my son was already on a team and now the "powers that be" are saying "oh, no you're not -- we're taking that away."

He'll play what ever level and he'll play hard. Just bad timing. And, of course, I am putting my son above the "good of hockey", last time I checked you don't get to do high school over again.

"HGP Logic" was just a rivalry put-down. HGPfan was "wagging his finger in my face" calling me a child and I didn't like it.

This is a forum for people to talk about high school hockey and give opinions, not just pontifications about how hockey needs to be organized for the public's greater good.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy18:
Friar, This is getting ridiculous. But I will answer your great Question. I would play Varsity if I had the choice. But the player does not have the choice. The parent does not have the choice. The coach has the choice.

When I got cut from the glaciers midget A team in 1997, I complained about it to my Dad, who promptly told me to suck it up, take it like a man, and learn from it. He did not switch me over to Warwick, or start a second Midget A team. I took it like a man and played on the B team (the denominations later being changed to A and AA for all of you youngins out there in messageboard land). When I got put ont he JV team as a freshmanin high school, I did not complain about it, I worked hard and got myself up to varsity by the end of the year. And you can rest assured that If my old man went on a message board and complained about it, I would be embarrassed and angry. The point is, you are putting your kid's situation above all of high school hockey. As a coach in the future jvaaa league, I am putting the interest of the15 kids on my team ahead of all, because I'd like to see them play against better teams like Malvern Prep's second team, whatever it is called, instead of the teams we currently play 3 times every season. I dont understand how you can disagree with this change.

and further, being as you personally attacked me, maybe inadvertantly, with your "hgp logic" comment, why don't you elaborate on what that meant.

This whole discussion is over a word on both sides. Looks like you benefit so of course you support it. The current V2s getting nothing out of it and proably or worse off in the long run for it. Unless you can explain the plus to them. I came late to this so maybe I missed that. I am willing to listen. (If you say PIAA status for HS Hockey that's not going to happen so I would discount that one).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fellows,

Just another question, if the AAA schools second team plays AAA JV, where does the third (and 4th in the case of O'Hara) teams play???

The other JV teams in their old league. Example, Lasalle would play in the Suburban where they are now. At least thats what I gathered.

Thanks HGP, I thought that's where it gets sticky, if the other open enrollment/private schools form their own league, again will their JV teams (some of those teams don't have JV teams now) play in their own league too. Maybe that would be the place for the AAA's 3rd teams to play to round out that division.