AAA will have a slight twist next season.

Their will be a Tier One AAA league that will look like the AAA league of last season (With the probable addition of Archbishop Wood)

Each team will play each other twice and can schedule a few non-league games against traditional public school rivals.

Teir 2 AAA will be for the AA and A private/parochial schools and they WILL be Flyers Cup eligible. T2 will also be for the AAA schools that choose to 'play down' for rebuilding purposes or if they feel they cant compete at T1, but they WILL NOT be Flyers Cup eligible. Also playing in T2 will be all of the second Varsity teams....also not eligible for Flyers Cup.

Personally, I like it.

So, LaSalle II and Haverford School will be in the same league, and HS will be Flyers Cup eligible but LaSalle II won't?

Makes sense, I think. Stinks for the players on the II teams to see teams they beat given the opportunity to go to the next level while they are left behind, but I guess that's the way it goes.

if the second varsities played in the JV league that they belong in, then that wouldn't be an issue.

matt,

did you see lasalle II play last year ? to put them in a jv league would have been a benefit to no one and flat out ludicrous. to keep them out of flyers cup play serves only one purpose and that is to limit the competition that the other clubs would face. it is the leagues perogitive to do so, but in the end only the kids feel the effect.

It would be a benefit to the public schools who loose players every year that go to play "varsity" at private schools.

I don't have a problem with the best players going to La Salle or Malvern to play hockey, I really don't, it's better hockey and better education, I'm all for that, but when public schools start loing second and third liners so that V2 rosters can be filled out....it is going to cripple the pool of players that public schools have to choose from.

If it is called what it is rather than glorifing it by calling varsity, maybe ego driven kids and parents would prefer to stay at their public schools and play true varsity hockey rather than going to a private school and playing JV hockey that is just varsity in name.

If La Salle, Malvern, O'Hara, St Joe's ect, all have JV Teams that are too good to play JV, why cant they all play against each other in an elite JV division. How many kids would stay at thier public school and remain a second liner rather than being labled a JV player....I wish I knew the answer to that.

Again, does C.B. West have a second Varsity team because their better than everyone else in football?

i understand your frustration, however to call the parents and kids who play lasalle II, and malvern II ego driven is arrogant and misguided. how many of them do you know personally? i doubt you know any of them. these schools obviously draw alot of hockey players from the area, however the lure of a quality private education is at the core of this decision . remember, hockey,unlike football, basketball, etc is an expensive sport in this area, and therefore will have large number of players who can afford the cost of a malvern, hgp,lasalle ,sjp . in light of this, i would venture to say the answe to your qustion is that very few would stay in their public school for the lure of playing varsity.
by the way cbwest barely has enough kids to field one varsity team in fotball, as their program has collapsed since the third high school has been opened.

Matt,

I think you like many others overestimate the notion that if LaSalle or the other private schools that field second varsities would drop those teams (or strictly play Varsity/JV) that many of those players would go to other schools (public or archdiocesan like McDevitt, Wood etc). My son has played 3 years in the LaSalle program, this past year VII. He knew that with guys like Pyne and Antoni ahead of him on the org chart, he wasn't getting a sniff at the AAA team. He never wanted to leave the school, he loves the school (he's also in the music program, concert band, pep band and a diver on the swim team). He's talked about quitting the hockey team but never transferring. He could have been the top goalie at McDevitt, a team that has not had a true goaltender the past two years, but even though he helped them out as an eigth grader when they needed a JV goalie, it was never a consideration for him to enroll there (much to their disappointment).

In knowing most of the parents and boys in the program, of the one's that played second varsity and never get a shot at the top team, it's my opinion that 95% if not all of them would be there anyway if those multiple "varsity" teams didn't exist. The majority of these players play club also, it's not like they wouldn't be playing hockey if those teams didn't exist. Do kids transfer out because of sports, yes, I know of one who was a hockey player and lacrosse player, he transferred after playing JV hockey his freshman year because he saw he couldn't advance to the top teams in Lacrosse (and in hockey) and knew he could elsewhere. So he's playing varsity at a public school for Lacrosse and hockey. I'm sure there were others, but they are few.

This past year, LaSalle went from 4 teams to three, that left many players who played "varsity" in 06/07 either playing JV this year or not playing at LaSalle. That was pretty much known that one team would be dropped at the end of the 06/07 season. That would have been the opportunity for players to transfer for hockey, not one of those players transferred out.

Sure, many players are drawn there because of Wally and hockey. Sure some are there for that reason alone, and most of those do nothing else there but play hockey. But to think that parents spend $14,6000 (next year's tuition) for the reason to say that their son plays "varsity" hockey at LaSalle for a second or third "varsity" team is very misguided. I've had this argument with Kenny Haas (whom I like and respect) on this same issue, when he asked if my son couldn't play hockey at LaSalle where would I send him, and I said nowhere else, that's where he wants to be. He has the same feelings as you on this, I couldn't convince him, and I'm sure I won't convince you. LaSalle is more than hockey. My decision to pay that kind of tuition was not based on hockey, it was based on the school and what it had to offer my son in terms of college and other opportunities. The fact that he can play there at a "varsity" level is a bonus, but was no way close to a high factor in that equation. As it was for most of the other parents of V2 players that my son plays with.

A secondary issue in all of this follows up to what crusader mentioned of the competition level. I have no problem of a second varsity being ineligible for flyers cup, it is in reality a jv or feeder team for the AAA team. But there is a vast difference in play level from JV to AAA, an elite JV level may be the answer, but the current thinking in your other post of a AAA tier 2 league makes sense for varsity 2, I think that's the answer.

I think what also should be considered in that AAA tier 2 are "unpure" teams. For schools that may not have enough varsity players to field a team, but could combine with another team to keep the program alive until other players could be recruited. It's not likely teams like Cheltenham, Springfield Montco and Norristown will return any time soon since they couldn't field varsity teams, but if they could have combined players/resources, they possibly would/could have an easier time reviving the program when enough players were able to support a full team.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

Maybe this may work?

A division of open enrollment schools that cant compete with the AAA bracket; McDevitt, Shanahan, Episcopal, etc. These schools are also not eligible for Flyers Cup.

Another division that would essentially be an elite JV league with all strong AAA scholl's JV/Varsity 2 teams. THey would be in separate divisions, but play cross-over games against each other.

So your "AAA tier 2 league" would be one division of the weaker/smaller open enrollment schools, and another division of the stronger AAA school's second teams. Maybe teams in each division play each other twice, and have 1 crossover game against the other division?

To Boraske's point, the way I understand it, none of the Tier 2 teams are FC eligible meaning neither LaSalle II nor Haverford School are FC eligible. Same goes for McDevitt, Carroll, Lansdale Catholic and Episcopal. Is my understanding correct?

I know at least one of those teams balked at being left out of FC contention. They were told that in order to qualify for the FC they would have to play Tier 1. Their preference would be to play with some of the smaller public schools and be eligible for the cup. Now, to me, it sounds like they want their cake and eat it too, by picking their competition.

However, I see a precedent here in that Shanahan was placed in the Ches-Mont North division with 5 public schools. And Salesianum was placed in Ches-Mont South. They are the only open enrollment schools playing outside other open enrollments.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mojo,

I never said EVERY kid or parent on LaSalle or Malvern is ego driven, in fact I said "Private schools", I never singled out LaSalle or Malvern players/parents in that sentence. There is nothing I hate more than people putting words into my mouth.

To say that there are no parents or kids in the HS hockey world that are ego driven and cant wait to tell their friends and family's that they made Bud's Team or they are going to Deerfield or they made La Salle Varsity, you are mistaken.

I'm also not saying that kids will transfer back to public schools if V2's become JV....but they might think a little differntly in the future before committing to the program in the first place.

Ralphy, if 95% is your estimation, don't you think that the 5% might help out some of those public schools that cant compete or are even folding? 5 players out of 100 might make a difference to the landscape of public school hockey.

Also Ralphy, your sons reasons for attending LaSalles are admirable, and I do believe every word you said, but if that is the case, why are we having such a hard time having teams play JV with the rest of the JV teams....or in an elite JV division with the other varsity 2's?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Matt Sacks,

@Mojo:

You may be right, but I'm pretty sure he said "some Tier II teams will be eligible."

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Sacks:
Teir 2 AAA will be for the AA and A private/parochial schools and they WILL be Flyers Cup eligible. T2 will also be for the AAA schools that choose to 'play down' for rebuilding purposes or if they feel they cant compete at T1, but they WILL NOT be Flyers Cup eligible. Also playing in T2 will be all of the second Varsity teams....also not eligible for Flyers Cup.

Matt, care to clarify? Was what I said in my first post possible? A Tier II team can get into... AAA Flyers Cup? Or their respective A/AA levels?

No doubt there are plenty of hockey parents out there who can't wait to tell friends their little johnny is playing for team X. That's true in all sports. But those are the parents that also will drag little johnny from team to team until he's a star somewhere, the team isn't good enough, the coach isn't good enough etc, so they move on.

My point with kids transferring out, is that if kids were just there to play "varsity" hockey on a second varsity team, when that was taken away (LaSalle went from 4 varsities to 2 in one year), wouldn't they transfer if that was the only reason they were there in the first place??? None did. Your right Matt, you didn't say that, just making a point.

Your point of public school varsity teams losing second or third liners so a private school team can fill out a varsity 2 roster just isn't valid.

My brother is a varsity hockey head coach at a local HS, he used to whine about LaSalle and GA stealing players from his district, thus his team. So I told him to go ask the parents of these kids why they didn't go to their local public school. There are two brothers that live down the street from him that played V2 with my son. My brother knows the boys and the parents very well, they speak highly of my brother, but the decision to go to LaSalle had absolutely nothing to do with hockey, and my brother knows that.

He (my brother) had the same misconception that most others have in this regard.

As crusader alluded to:

Hockey is a sport of affluence for the most part.

Parents that can afford to spend thousands of dollars for their kids to play hockey, for the most part can afford to send their kids to private schools. Affluent parents in general will send their kids to private schools, that's just the way it is. (Obviously there are plenty of kids with affluent parents that go to public schools too).

The final point in all this is that it didn't matter to me or to most other parents that I know that LaSalle had multiple varsity teams or not. We (the parents) are the ones who pay the bills, thus make the final decision. I am not nieve to think that egos had no impact on the decision for some. But I think that you and others greatly overestimate the effect that multiple varsities have on limiting the player pool for other school programs. The effect is very very small.

Would the 5% make a difference, 5 players over 30 or 40 school districts??? I don't think so, what would make more of an impact on these teams are having the teams supported by the schools, a midget/hs split season, less competition from junior teams etc. What other sport has this much outside competition for players at the HS level??? - NONE.

Let's take for example springfield montco, the twp I live in. They dropped hockey this past season because they had only 6 returning players. There are 4 boys from Springfield including my son that are hockey players that attend LaSalle, 2 played V2, one JV and the other played JV as a freshman but did not play this year. So if all would have gone to Springfield, it makes 9 players and a goalie. If my son didn't get accepted to LaSalle, he would have gone to McDevitt, Springfield was not in the picture. The boy on JV's brother played for Springfield. Their parents were part of the group that ran the program. Their "JV" son wanted to go to LaSalle, again, hockey was not the reason, in fact he had every reason to play hockey for Springfield with his brother (and his parents helping to run the program), but that was not his choice. There are a few others that play club hockey, go to Springfield, but did not play HS hockey there. The parents went to the school board a number of years ago to try and get hockey supported, it was voted down. At one time they had middle school, JV and Varsity. Now they have none. Does LaSalle (in springfield HS's back yard) multiple varsities have an impact on Springfield's program - I don't think so.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralphy,

Boraske:

Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I read that yesterday but must have missed it when I went looking for it this morning.

The question is, then, are the non-II teams playing in Tier 2 AAA FC eligible or not? We were told last night that they were NOT FC eligible but, as Steve pointed out, Matt says they are.

Many players from the 2007 and 2008 La Salle team reside in Lansdale. If a private school education is what most kids and parents are seeking, what is wrong with Lansdale Catholic.

No sarcasm meant here, I just see 6 or 7 VERY good hockey players that reside in Lansdale on the LaSalle roster, while LC is having trouble feilding a competitive team. What is the reason that these kids/parents choose LaSalle over the Catholic School that is in their back yard?

Steve / Mojo,

Let me follow up on that, I was under the assumption that any team that was classified as AA or A playing in T2 would be FC eligible.

Any team deemed as AAA that decided to play in T2 would not be.....I may be wrong, I'll look into it.